Since from start I've always used a blood tanking spec despite everyone saying that it sucked big time.
Accordingly to what i've read across the forum, I started to see some comments about blood being great atm.
Can you give me some info on this?
Also, what is the current frost tank spec and glyphs? Im just considering trying a different spec or keep my blood one.
Forget about using search how about if you actually read the thread titles on this forum ? If you had, you'd see one convenientely called "Suno's Fireside Chat - DK Endgame Tanking (Updated)" ...
What I find disturbing is that you'll play DD or Tank in the same style. Cooldowns won't be rotated anymore, just be reactive because you won't always have one ready. So you will just play your rotation, like you do as DD, and hope nothing ownes you.
Every other class plays different with alternate speccs, only DK will be hitting the same buttons over and over again, I really think that's the worst thing for me.
This, and the fact that they just completely ignored Unbreakable Armor are the worst for me. DPSing in blue stance has never been fun, but now it will actively be a chore. I feel like they rushed the notes out before even considering how godawful Unbreakable Armor was. I mean, it was bad before potential nerfs, but after? 5% armor loss hurts it even further, and the talent honestly needs a complete overhaul... Again.
My kneejerk reaction is despair, even though in the back of my head I know that most of these changes won't make it to live. They're just too sweeping. Everything got hit, and then they nerfed threat on top of that (Frost Strike was already lackluster for tanking due to competition for resources with Rune Strike, but now it can be parried and dodged? Gee thanks). I guess we'll see.
I dont see how your answer helps or gives me a direct reply.
Reading across the forum means I've read many of the threads and posts on the forum, using search to find a specific answer when you have specific threads its just stupid and everyone knows or should know that.
I may be new to the forum but making an assumption that by being new here Im a total noob it just unrespectfull towards me or others on my position.
If this is not the place to share doubts and look for some answers then I should be looking elsewhere.
When I signed up I was hoping that elitist would be more meaningfull than jerks, but maybe I was wrong.
I dont see how your answer helps or gives me a direct reply.
Reading across the forum means I've read many of the threads and posts on the forum, using search to find a specific answer when you have specific threads its just stupid and everyone knows or should know that.
I may be new to the forum but making an assumption that by being new here Im a total noob it just unrespectfull towards me or others on my position.
If this is not the place to share doubts and look for some answers then I should be looking elsewhere.
When I signed up I was hoping that elitist would be more meaningfull than jerks, but maybe I was wrong.
Because right in the thread title it gives the referrence to the fact it may have specific information on DK tanking in the end game, as opposed to a generalized discussion. Its a direct reply because it tells you where to get the information you were looking for, which is simply a few threads down on the main page.
The reason the search function gets so vaunted is because as a forum with a specific topic; invariably, people are going to be asking the same thing a lot of the time. Over and over and over. Till anyone that is infact a regular of the forum starts to get a knee jerk reaction to punch them in the face when they've answered the same simple question fifty-eight times just because no-one actively searchs for the response themselves.
I've read the thread, I said I did read across the forum.
The thread only states that blood now is good, I just wanted to know how good, just simply that.
Also I've seen so many frost specs across the forum that I just wanted a more precise direction.
Besides my reaction was about how Emi replied, he could have just said "visit this thread and take all the builds there as up to date" that would do honestly.
Rogues getting axes next patch, Using the same Talent as sword spec for the % chance of an extra hit.
With the higher top ends of axes then swords is this gonna be the new rogue spec to take in 3.2???
Im pretty new to being a rogue, I played as one in vanilla. Then turned Warrior TBC and then DK in Wotlk (Like every other person) so still need a little guidance.
Recently gone rogue and am very happy with my decision. Being able to kick out enough damage/DPS to be consistantly top of the charts. My guild are a strict 10 man raiding guild. Not even allowing use of 25 man item drops with an iLvL over 219. Making our 10 mans that little bit more challenging. Our current 10 man strict status is first on server.
Any help or advice on me being able to do that little bit extra in 10 mans would be much obliged.
This helped a hell of alot while i was gearing up my rogue Tyvm. Have had to go into Imp poisens for now untill i get a little better gear to accomodate for it, But my dps is not bad. At a rough 5k dps in 10 mans single target.
I still seem to be missing alot though. I got my poisen hit cap, DOnt know what else could be doing it.
Best profession for a tank Deathknight? Jewelcrafting and enchanting? But i heard that jewelcrafting will be nerfed? Blacksmith is also good. Second spec will be unholy dps and sometimes i play arena pvp.
This is with the SEP calc cell changed to use the 108 armored to the teeth instead of 180.
Edit: This is fury by the way, not arms.
Nope works wonders. T8 is overrated or as many would say only considered a stamina upgrade :p
I use Conquerors atm, but only cz i need the stats they have. as soon as i can juggle my gear around im on Valerouse until i can get proto hide leggings...jummy..
also i find that the Bonus from t8 sucks... id aim for atleast to keep 2 valerouse items for that nice bonus.
Its basically a demonology build which uses the imp, without the felguard and mana feed. The reason for this being that the imp benefits from standing in a crash (!) and regens mana normally . Also, this means that you can use the shadowbolt glyph and soul fire (cheap spell, mana wise! (9% base mana, compared to 17% for shadow bolt and 14% for incinerate, 7% chaos bolt, 17% immolate)).
tbh, I got a vezax hard mode kill (25 man) being just destruction with a twist. (took points from the mana regeneration and put them in affliction / improved curse of weakness because our arms warrior complained he couldn't get the 5 points in improved demoralizing shout and reach his 'must have' talent points). Wanded the last bit of vezax down .
My skills with Excel are severely limited and as simple as this sounds; its beyond me. Any chance you could post a version with the Blacksmithing options in place?
I'm at work at the moment but i'll edit this post tomorrow with a link to it.
We have clearly stated to Blizzard that Shamans have really Low HP.
Searching on internet we see that:
"Base health values at level 80
These are the correct values as of Patch 3.0.9. Base health - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft "
Class Base health value
Death Knight 8121
Druid 7417
Hunter 7324
Mage 6963
Paladin 6934
Priest 6960
Rogue 7604
Shaman 6485
Warlock 7164
Warrior 8121
Shaman on live server have 6485 while a Priest has 6960 looking even more at rest melee classes we notice that
Death Knight 8121
Warrior 8121
Rogue 7604
Druid 7417 ( CAT FORM)
Paladin 6934
Shaman 6485
Paladins and Shamans are on the bottom of the chain, therefor paladins are plate wearers so the problem of health is solved for them from their gear. On the other hand shamans with mail armor suffer alot more from chained damage. Reading more carefully the new patch notes from mmo-champion we see that the buff we receive is 7% on base health.
"Base health increased by approximately 7% to correct for shamans having lower health than other classes."
Making the calculations with live number the results are:
6485*7/100=453.95+6485=6938.95
or
6485*1.07=6938.95
So Shamans and Paladins will have same HP ~6940. Now lets see...6940 + mail gear vs 6940 + plate gear...paladin are in better condition. Lets compare Shamans with rest NON plate gear dps
Rogue 7604
Druid 7417 ( CAT FORM)
Shaman 6940
As we see shaman's base health is almost 664 less than a rogue again and 477 from a druid...Problem is not solved it still there and if we take a better look at the gear of t7 and t8 we notice that there is a stamina reduction too. Overall a ~480 hp will not solve shaman's HP problem on Hard modes.
In order the buff to bring us in parallel with rest melee dps classes it should be +15% or +20% so we can reach either Druids or Rogues.
If you think that this post is not related to our shaman please delete it. But i hate to spent maelstorm stacks on predicted times to keep me up, when other dpsers do not even bother to look their hp bar.
If their aim was to hurt DK tanking, they would have played with our cooldowns and not our base numbers for hp and mitigation. These are long-term scaling changes designed to fix an imminent problem.
But they did. They increased Icebound to 2 minutes. I agree with the latter, but they did even include nerfs to cooldowns.
Seeing as we currently scale way better than other tanks that are receiving the buffs, these tweaks to our armor and HP will be covered up by how well we still scale compared to warriors and paladins (you could easily argue against this statement but I'd have to look at some numbers for how blocking will be affected first).
I think that the numbers thing you mentioned that would convince you will be necessary for me to believe that we still scale enough to make up for this. However, in theory, what happens is that we don't have block, and block is being doubled in essence, while our passive reduction is "in line" with other classes. One could argue about our cooldowns, but again, Icebound was nerfed as well. In a way, this is a double-nerf of sorts. I have no problem being the offtank and staying in that position. But the changes interfere even with that particular job.
You'll notice druid tanking is unchanged.
Not sure how that applies to us but yeah, I think people noticed that one. Can you clarify whether you mean that druid tanking is perfect so doesn't need a tweak, or that you think they are getting a "nerfbat" by not being buffed through shield block? From what I'm gathering, its as if you feel druids are in between warrior/pally and DK tanking. I'm not sure I'm convinced that this is the case, as it depends on play-style of healers.
Scaling changes is also why they changed our Toughness. If you're hitting armor cap under certain situations already, how out of control do you think things will be when you're in T9?
I'm not sure who's actually hitting armor cap with the previous nerf to Frost Presence. Certainly the changes to healers so they don't give you armor will keep us from hitting it though.
These changes should bring us down to druid levels and warriors and paladins up to par. While I dislike my class getting hurt, I believe we are currently too powerful and can stand to take a hit.
I have no problem with Warriors and Paladins being "brought up to par." What it does feel like is that they are both raising effectiveness of paladins and warriors, while nerfing the DK's. One or the other would have been fine. Doing both seems a bit excessive. That said, the previous nerf to Frost Presence already interfered with my tanking. I'm unsure how the new changes are necessary. If I had only a few of them to look at, like a change to icebound to 2 minutes and that alone, I could probably live with that as I felt it was overpowered. As it stands, nerfing us so that we need to use those cooldowns to survive, and then also nerfing icebound at the same time despite the fact that we don't have block value is too much.
As our Off-tank, I currently have worse gear but roughly 3k more armor, 1k more hp, and the same avoidance as our Paladin MT who is in a bunch of BiS. I have better cooldowns. It was a joke. Hopefully these changes will put us all more in line. By then I'll have more Hardmode gear and won't be worried about an HP and armor tweak and neither should you.
But the problem is, the armor and HP is supposed to offset the fact that we have no block. Again, the cooldowns are being tweaked as well. I think that perhaps with the fact that you're not Unholy-specialized, the nerfs may not be as problematic to you. But with the loss of Unholy Blight as an aoe aggro, the loss of Desecration as a snare + aggro improving skill in one, the fact that very little of our tanking is done by death coiling since most of our runic is burned through rune strikes, and obviously the fact that we're "third in line" in DK tanking - all this contributes to the feeling people get about the nerfs in general.
The answer to all this seems to come in the form of "DK tanks will merely have to spec either blood or frost (frost preferably) to have a good chance of doing their job." This flies in the face of their design making each tree both a tanking and DPS tree. I'm not sure what Blizzard is intending here, and I feel that they are perhaps overcompensating for the fact that Unholy has been the most popular tree up until now.
As a note: Prior to the previous patch, I felt that I was way overpowered compared to our main tank Warrior. I would often get the request to main tank instead of him. After that patch, I was not asked to do so again, and I took very spiky/scary damage. With the nerfs to armor, I can no longer hold a ton of mobs on me and expect to miraculously live. And that's fine, as I felt we were overpowered, and was willing to live with it. This on the other hand is on an entirely different scale.
Hey all, I've read the last two pages and the first page, I just switched from dps to tank yesterday and I am sitting in full blues, using armageddon as my tanking weapon and the Emblem sigil. I lack tank trinkets and rings but I am working on getting those, I am sitting at like 547 def without sigil proc and 557 with it (Off top of my head.) What I'm curious to know is are these 3.2 changes going to hurt the gearing up tank? I'm sitting at low health, I lose health from my dps to my tank gear (like 1k) but I see the health nerf in Frost pres, and I rely on good healers and my cds to not die on most fights in heroics.
I also see the nerf to toughness as cause of concern for a new dk tank, when you have those blues from rep and crafted maybe a epic or two from a drop from a heroic or a bud hooked you up, the extra armor from toughness is really nice for getting that extra chance of not dieing from that scary boss you have never tanked before. I know the main reason it was nerfed is that people put points in it for pvp but that can be solved by moving it up the tree more, not by nerfing it.
Also I was looking at the Tempered Titansteel Helm (Crafted BS epic tank helm) and compared it to my current rare Tempered Saronitee Heml or something like that (crafted Bs item) and I lose about 36-37 def (rating) but gain a meta and a gem socket. Does that outweigh the lose of my def, granted I am over cap. And the same with the boots, I have the rep boots from Wyrmrest (I think thats the rep) and they have like 10 more def rating then the crafted ones. Any ideas?
P.S. I know my belt has block rating on it, but I don't have anything else....go ahead laugh.
Most of those questions are answered in other threads, such as the DK tanking thread that seems to be more for new tanks. But I'll answer your questions with pretty much one word: Yes.
To elaborate:
Yes it will affect you, but your problem lies in your gear. Running heroics daily will help you gear up, as you get items not only from drops but from the emblems.
Yes, the titansteel is better than your saronite. You said something about your health/stam. Titansteel has a lot more on it, along with a slot for Austere Earthsiege diamond and a stam gem.
Yes, you are overcapped on def so the loss of def (so long as you don't lower yourself below cap) is worth it. Even if it does lower you below the cap, getting rings/better items will help you with that.
The only ideas I can come up with are to get BoE epics, whether they are craftables or vendor or drops from bosses. As it stands, Bracers of Dalaran's Parapets are likely to be very cheap lately. The titansteel helm will be better for you too.
In a nutshell, there are a number of tanking threads in the forum besides this one. Many contain upgrade information, ideas for tanking, and other good notes. If you read through them I'm sure you will find the answer to many of your questions.
Well curently my hit is low its 1.71% i don't have a problem with threat but when i need to taunt it seems to miss often. my question is does growl have its own hit cap, or do i have to have as much hit as a mele would have in a raid.
Most of those questions are answered in other threads, such as the DK tanking thread that seems to be more for new tanks. But I'll answer your questions with pretty much one word: Yes.
To elaborate:
Yes it will affect you, but your problem lies in your gear. Running heroics daily will help you gear up, as you get items not only from drops but from the emblems.
Yes, the titansteel is better than your saronite. You said something about your health/stam. Titansteel has a lot more on it, along with a slot for Austere Earthsiege diamond and a stam gem.
Yes, you are overcapped on def so the loss of def (so long as you don't lower yourself below cap) is worth it. Even if it does lower you below the cap, getting rings/better items will help you with that.
The only ideas I can come up with are to get BoE epics, whether they are craftables or vendor or drops from bosses. As it stands, Bracers of Dalaran's Parapets are likely to be very cheap lately. The titansteel helm will be better for you too.
In a nutshell, there are a number of tanking threads in the forum besides this one. Many contain upgrade information, ideas for tanking, and other good notes. If you read through them I'm sure you will find the answer to many of your questions.
Thanks bunch, in all honostity I thought this was the only tank thread, sorry to put my new tank questions in the more advanced thread, but the answers help.
I've changed my UI around alot here you can check sum of them out...dont mind the old pics my Ui then was a complete mess...check the most recent UI pics I think its the best I had so far
I've used both xperl and pitbull personally i like xperl better
Bartender
DBM
Yata
fubar
Prat
Quartz
Recount
SatrinaBuffFrame
ShamanFriend
Simple minimap
SLDataText
TinyTip
Hey guys i have a cupple of questions i am a new resto druid i used to play a holy pally before but now i am rolling resto because of the druid ability to top the meter. i have kinda gotten the hang of all the new spells and i admit i have not read all 63 pages here but i have read alot of them, i am having problems when i want to rejv a good chunk of the raid, what i have been doing is putting wildgrowth on the raid because i dont have 2 wait for the GCD to take effect when i rejuv i feel like i am wasting so much time waiting 4 the GCD, am i? also regrowth lasts longer so it has been my tendence to use that even though it costs dubble the mana. from what i have read as a druid i shouldnt need to use my interavte on myself but i find myself doing that anyway so anyone have any thoughts or comments 2 help me out? sry if my spelling and grammer makes anyone mad i typed this quick.
06/19/09, 9:00 AM
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