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Old 06/25/09, 9:57 PM   #5676
abcgum1
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Lothar
Hi im a bit noob at this but , currently im following the 6/14/51 spec and i was wondering wouldent taking the 4 points from beast mastery and putting it into improved stings would increase dps?

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Old 06/25/09, 11:22 PM   #5677
Daedalix
Piston Honda
 
Daedalix's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by Nerub View Post
No, they are trying to push one build to be a viable DW Spec, not all three trees at a time.

Taken from the class Q&A:
He didn't mean to imply that Unholy and Blood would have competitive DW builds. He meant "2H Unholy, 2H Blood, and DW Frost"... DW is pretty much going only in the Frost tree (though some heavy Unholy sub-spec could be possible) and 2H Frost is going out the window in terms of being on par with the other two trees in top DPS.

Stay thirsty my friends.

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Old 06/26/09, 2:06 AM   #5678
Tebla
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Cenarius
You are an artist Supplicium. I have pulled your Grid, Pitbull, Quartz and Parrot settings from the 1.0.1 version of your UI



This is what I came up with today. I am huge fan of you grid and Pitbull setups. Thanks.

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Old 06/26/09, 3:50 AM   #5679
bals
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Tichondrius
I notice occasional misses when using Mind Freeze on bosses while having more than 263 hit rating. Is this due to it getting resisted or does it use the spell hit cap?

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Old 06/26/09, 4:20 AM   #5680
Arghoslent
Banned
 
Human Warrior
 
Lightbringer (EU)
Originally Posted by jozga View Post
I think my only complaint with the warrior class is that our stamina multiplier is lower than other tanking classes (especially with equal base health now) - I would prefer it if all classes had an equal multiplier and ranged slots had little or no stamina. It's frustrating to always be limited to lower stamina than DKs regardless of what you do with your gear. I suspect this is an effort to reduce the number of warrior MTs by making them visibly 'weaker' (hitpoints are a pretty common way of determining who gets to tank, especially in PuGs), which also seems unfair.
Who on earth are the developers of this game to artificially manipulate the number of classes played? How can they try to decrease the warrior population? People choose what they want to play (which they pay for!), and if 70% of tanks are warrior tanks, so be it. Other tank clases are useful in other specs (druids being a pure scandal, with their viability in every possible way: tank, melee dps, ranged dps, healer), so if one wants to play another spec, they're useful (unlike dps warriors).

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Old 06/26/09, 4:57 AM   #5681
Dumbel
Glass Joe
 
Dumbel's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Khaz'goroth
I'm not sure if this is the right thread but it seemed the most suitable for my question.

I’ve just tried out ttw/fire and so far it's great except for the amount of threat it produces. Yes I do rely on invis and mirror images but are there any other tricks to managing threat as ttw/fire. Thanks.

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Old 06/26/09, 5:40 AM   #5682
Belerefontis
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Steamwheedle Cartel (EU)
Hey all.Took the courage to post mine aswell


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Old 06/26/09, 7:53 AM   #5683
Nadiastorm
 
Human Death Knight
 
Khadgar (EU)
Hello.
I have been an Ej reader for quite a few years, and only recently decided to sign up.
I wanted to post after trying out the SIM on another thread, and started developing the DW Unholy spec.

Although im mid T7 geared and playing through Naxx 25 atm, there is only so much results i can get from my current build. And wondered if there was anyone out their with a spare duel spec who wanted to try out and experiment, who was at a higher level. With 3.2 on the way this experiment might not have much time left.

My build is 00-15-56
Sigil - WildBuck/Frozenconscience
Presence - Unholy.
Glyphs: Plague Strike, Dark Death, Icy Touch

Rotation -
IT>IT>PS>PS>BB>BB 1st rotation UB
IT>IT>PS>PS>BB>BB 2nd rotation Summon Gargoyle
IT>IT>PS>PS>BB>BB 3rd rotation DC Dump

Armoury Link

Ofc, i know there are plenty builds out there that might do some impressive DPS in comparison, and i might be flogging a dead horse and i will accept that if thats the case. And the spec and rotation might be *out of the box* however i have managed 3.8k in a 25 OS and on average 3.2k in Naxx.
But SIM's and spread sheets are nothing like the real thing ingame, and my feeling is this build will scale better looking at the EP i get.

<waiting for results to paste>



I look forward to any feedback you could give.
Kindest Regards
Nad
My priority attributes that im aiming for for this build is Weapon dps, Strength & Haste.

Last edited by Nadiastorm : 06/26/09 at 10:55 AM.

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Old 06/26/09, 9:16 AM   #5684
Boubouille
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Elune (EU)
Originally Posted by Jagiya View Post
There's no plate files in there yet.
Sure.

I like cookies.

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Old 06/26/09, 9:19 AM   #5685
Beachwanderer
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by abcgum1 View Post
Hi im a bit noob at this but , currently im following the 6/14/51 spec and i was wondering wouldent taking the 4 points from beast mastery and putting it into improved stings would increase dps?
THe point in Focused Fire is a dramatic dps increase over any point in Imp AotH or Imp Stings. I think I found about 30 dps per point in Imp AotH and Imp Stings, while FF gives about 60 dps (according to the spreadsheet).

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Old 06/26/09, 9:28 AM   #5686
Jagiya
Don Flamenco
 
Jagiya's Avatar
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Blackrock
Sorry, to be politically correct:
"I haven't found any Plate images yet." :P

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Old 06/26/09, 10:33 AM   #5687
Shayo
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by nenad View Post
You can use even now with simulation your own gear from Armory, instead of supplied BiS. In fact, for anyone that want to check best options for themselves, that is best choice. For example, this is enough to run simulation for your own character:

opt_raid.simcraft
armory=Region,Server,Player

where region=eu,us... and server is your realm name. It will use "default" actions based on your spec, but you can specify your own actions by just adding them after, or you can change glyphs or talents by adding new value after 'armory', but keeping your gear ... so for example:

opt_raid.simcraft
armory=Region,Server,Player
glyphs=conflagrate/incinerate/life_tap
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap
I can't check this until I get home, but I have a quick question. Does simulationcraft make a guess based on your spec? If I logged out in my pvp spec, but have a pve spec I could use instead, does it choose the PVE spec or is there an option to select which spec you're using? for example,
spec=primary,affliction or something like that?

Edit: Sorry, misunderstood. I just realized that this was primarily for gear and not talents

Last edited by Shayo : 06/26/09 at 11:04 AM.

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Old 06/26/09, 1:52 PM   #5688
Inviktus
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Black Dragonflight
Baddie!

Side note DPS tests on PTR: Sky isn't falling; Rogues slightly ahead (as it should be).

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Old 06/26/09, 3:29 PM   #5689
Travaggie
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Dunemaul
I posted this in the DW Builds thread but that is supposedly only for mechanics discussions so I'll repost here:

So after alot of testing I've stumbled upon a slight variation of spec/glyph/sigil usage that has been much more effective than the current builds I've seen and tried out so far. I was able to put out 4.1 - 4.3k sustained DPS on the dummy through multiple 4 minute tests without popping ghoul or UA, although I do have 2/2 Merciless Combat (all my tests have it).

My rotation is the basic IT>PS>OB>BS>BS :: OB>OB>OB weaving FS's and rime procs when/if there is ever a spare GCD. In this rotation you and spec there's only 1 IT per 20 sec rotation so used the [Glyph of Blood Strike] instead and put 1 point in chillbains and the difference was quite noticeable. Also having equipped the [Sigil of Awareness] since it adds twice as much damage and I OB as much as I FS in this spec, I have dual crit OB's in the neighborhood of 10-11k, FS and BS's critting upwards of 7-8k dual crits.

Here's a screenshot:



Here's the spec I was using although it doesn't have Epidemic which leaves you a bit short on diseases but still comes out higher so I'll be playing around with a couple more variations with Epidemic to see how they test.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...&version=10026

Edit: I just tested the spec below with Epidemic and it seems to be virtually identical in damage when taking Necrosis into consideration, but I believe going into Unholy like this will end up scaling better with Necrosis and Ravenous dead. Deciding between finishing out Necrosis or picking up Merciless Combat seems like a wash to me, but I stuck with Merciless Combat simply because all my other tests had it included for this build.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...&version=10026

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Old 06/26/09, 3:49 PM   #5690
Daedalix
Piston Honda
 
Daedalix's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Kilrogg
@ Travaggie - What weapons were you using? How does this compare to your results when you use a 2H and a similar spec?

You definitely need to try this w/o Merciless Combat because that's +12% increased damage to Obliterate (an already high-scaling ability) that is heavy in your rotation. FS, HB, IT, and OB are ~53% of your damage, so Merciless Combat alone accounts for atleast 300 dps.

This information is good to see but not worth a whole lot when there are confounding variables. Hopefully others won't be testing with Merciless Combat.

Stay thirsty my friends.

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Old 06/26/09, 4:47 PM   #5691
Eosrain
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Draenor
So I've been having a think about what may be more effective as a talent build with the massive changes. After lurking through about 15 pages of this thread, I noticed some comments and concerns that have been similar to my own. For instance, the fact that we now have to build up a stackable debuff on a target for maximum DPS output from SoV, the concern that said debuff could be dispelled could perhaps impede our progress made on the mob. Especially since some have voiced a concern that our single target DPS has suffered. Getting our SoV stack dispelled would cause our single target DPS to suffer even more IMO.

I'll admit, I'm not as handy with the math as most of you, and this is my first post, but I've lurked around these forums for a very long time.

I've been questioning the viability of Stoicism as a talent. The extra chance to have our DoT's and such not be dispelled may not be a readily visible DPS increase, however it adds the likelihood that our DPS will be far steadier. Honestly I think at this point, we need to prioritize towards steady single target DPS, with a decent capability towards AE DPS as well.

Another part of keeping steady DPS is keeping an eye on our mana pool, and I think Glyph of CruStrike will accomplish that relatively well. With the changes to JoL, I'd honestly rather have JoW anyway, not just for myself, but also to keep the caster DPS full on mana and happy. JoW increases not only my efficiency, but the efficiency of some other classes as well.

As far as DiSac, I honestly dislike the idea of a melee class being the raid saver. I think it's rather illogical for the other raid members to be dependent on a melee DPS class to bring a severely OP raid cooldown. As Ret, I don't think that's what our job is. I appreciate that Paladins are a hybrid class and that we bring off-healing and other raid utility, however I don't think that DiSac is the right way to go. It removes a lot of the difficulty for healers, and I dislike that because I've seen a lot of healers that just SUCK, blaming ME because I didn't use DiSac, and I think being put in that position is just ridiculous, and is not the right direction for Ret DPS to go. I've always liked Divine Guardian because it provides that perfect balance of allowing me to help out raid members without being relied on to save the entire raid. You never see other melee DPS classes expected to do that, and I think that it's ridiculous to allow ULTIMATE RAID SALVATION to be expected of us.

With all of that said, here's the talent build that I worked out... I like the glyphs and I also like that it provides utility for myself, while allowing for a decent degree of raid utility.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10026

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Old 06/26/09, 5:06 PM   #5692
Rmiskid4
 
Human Warrior
 
Vek'nilash
Betrayer vs. Ironsoul

I have been fortunate and just received my second Betrayer of Humanity, so I can now dual-wield them. Only a day later I received Ironsoul from Ulduar. Every place I look says that Ironsoul is better for DPS than Betrayer. My question is what do you think will be the best combo of these 3 to maximize dps? And what enchants would be best.....is it best to put berserker on both weapons?

Betrayer (Berserker Enchant)
Betrayer (Massacre Enchant)
Ironsoul (Un-chanted as of now)

By the way, I'm starved for expertise right now, so the mace will give me an extra 3 pts there.

Thanks

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Old 06/26/09, 5:19 PM   #5693
zanxil
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Chamber of Aspects (EU)
Thank you ^.^

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Old 06/26/09, 5:34 PM   #5694
PantheraOnca
Glass Joe
 
Human Warrior
 
Daggerspine
Your best bet would be to download the spreadsheet from the dps spreadsheet thread and see what happens with each weapon combination.

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Old 06/26/09, 5:44 PM   #5695
Sprout
Banned
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Azjol-Nerub
The wiki shows the ToW glyph better than LvB until 4k SP. Is this correct?

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Old 06/26/09, 6:59 PM   #5696
Maraxus
Glass Joe
 
Undead Death Knight
 
C'Thun (EU)
Originally Posted by Xentik View Post
Here's there results for Frost spec set up for DC vs Frost Spec set up for Frost Strike.

First, here are the specs I used.I assumed for the purposes of this test that filling up Impurity would be better than getting GoG and that the weapons were again 178.8 dps weapons. Equations used were the same, with the appropriate talents multipliers dropped/added.

Here's the DPRP graph.

As can be seen, this predicts Frost Strike should be competitive up to 8k AP if you have crit rates above 25%. Higher(lower) levels of AP will require marginally higher(lower) crit rates.
Really nice!!,

Would it be to much asking if you could repeat your calculations based on the two specs I posted when I quoted Syrellia a few posts earlier?

Your calculations make mine look.... well.... I will not say it myself :-P

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Old 06/26/09, 7:07 PM   #5697
Maraxus
Glass Joe
 
Undead Death Knight
 
C'Thun (EU)
Originally Posted by Xentik View Post
Let me know if there are any errors in my calculations, also if anyone is interested in the mathematica notebook with the calculations, let me know and I'll post it online.

edit: Fixed equation error, added Glyph of Dark Death as well. Scaling looks really bad for FS against a full unholy build. Going to check out a hybrid frost/unholy build to see if FS is actually competitive for frost.
Im tired and my brain is not able to catch any mistake (I hope its because Im tired :-P).

Only thing I see is that you factored Merciless Combat as it was up 100% of the time.

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Old 06/26/09, 8:27 PM   #5698
donmc
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Daggerspine
Just occured to me that SoV will significantly lower ret's dmg during short fights (trash). How nice would it be if SoV worked like this

Fills the paladin with holy energy causing melee attacks to apply blood corruption which causes additional holy damage over 15 seconds. Each of the paladin's attacks deals extra weapon damage as additional holy damage. This damage increases per stack up to 33% extra weapon damage. Stacks up to 5 times.
Would accomplish the same without gutting ret's dps on trash.

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Old 06/26/09, 8:31 PM   #5699
Naaribula
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Feathermoon
Very glad you posted Telumehtar, lets hope it doesn't get lost in all the trolling.

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Old 06/26/09, 10:26 PM   #5700
meepers
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Fenris
Feral Druid Tank Question

Ok, I've read some of the posts that seem to pertain to this. However I don't quite understand the 0/55/16 build tree. I know what the trees are, "Bal, Feral, Resto". But as far as to where to allocate the points with in the respective trees for Feral and Resto is what has got me baffled. I've looked and looked and knowing my luck it's probably starring me right in the face and I'm just not seeing it. If anyone has any help or info this would be great.

Meeps

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