Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 254

FaLLeNaNg3L · 04/27/09, 8:33 AM

Originally Posted by Hegen

You should be aware that there is no one set of numbers. If you really want to use stat weightings, you need to decide whether you want them for efficiency or throughput. Or, if you want a mixture, how you want efficiency weighted against throughput.

This isn't nitpicking: the equivalence value for haste is near to zero if you want efficiency weightings, but it's the most important stat if you want throughput.

I suggest you use Rawr instead of Lootrank, as this tool allows you to view both aspecs side by side as well as customize how you want to efficiency vs. throughput.

scalings could always be found for each class. why should that change now? of cause there is a certain set of numbers the whole game mechanics bases on numbers. how do you think blizzard makes int or spirit do what it does in a certain spec?
all we have to do is to decode this to a point understandable for us.
and its true, that these scalings depent on your preferences somehow. but since a 1500 spellpower priest that can heal for 10 min without going oom is as useless as an 3000 spellpower priest that is oom after 1 min, these scalings should be a weighted scaling, which, if you stuck to it equips you pretty balanced.

chima · 04/27/09, 9:08 AM

Here's a quick one... I'm blood specced (51/0/20) and recently got [Sigil of the Vengeful Heart]...

Is it better than [Sigil of Awareness] and why ?

Ty

HJT · 04/27/09, 9:19 AM

thank you very much!

I'm not really fond of reading through more than two pages of posts, and... some threads count to 40 or more

I know about the critcap, in Recount my missing crit is equal the "Hit" part in the white dmg.

My Hit is OK, always around something above 264 (well, more than 8%)

Expertise is my main problem... but im working on that (22 Points still missing...)

So... then lets regem, first to expertise cap, the agi, as i have with the current equipment only 22 or so ArPen

Liriel · 04/27/09, 9:40 AM

Yes and no.

Healing is not about spamming your best rotation for a given time-frame. It is more about decisions and reaction to something happening out there. So, while some extremes will not be valid you will never get a build that is the best for every situation. Even if we could decode the program-code for holy-priests in every detail that would NOT help us finding an overall stat-balance as you may be able to find for most DPS-builds. It depends much more on a given fight than about how the holy-priest works as a class.

There are short encounters and there are long encounters. Even if that would imply that the short encounter would favor a throughput build and the long encounter would favor a mana build that may be not the case. Maybe the short encounter would need a high number of very expensive spells (PoH/GH) so you would not be able to hold up with a throughput-build. Maybe you would need PoH/GH but would not need big versions of those, even if CoH/FH would be to small in every case (maybe because of a healing-debuff).

On the other hand there may be long encounters with short periods of very high dmg-income and long regen-phases afterwards (or a build-in-regen-buff). Vaelastrasz (or how the second drake in BWL iscalled) would be an example where mana or regen would do nothing at all even if it is a gimick-fight. (Or SoL P2 in BT even if that was a short encounter.)

Anyway while progressing you would not have the optimal set for every encounter and have to balance your best items for something. And since you would like to wear them in many situations you have to make stat-decisions.

tunonno · 04/27/09, 9:58 AM

Originally Posted by Cemetary

My newest setup.

I've completely redone how I think about UI's and how I set them up, and I think this expresses very clearly my approach toward making a minimal yet functional UI.

do you mind sharing it? btw i'm on 1280x1024

FaLLeNaNg3L · 04/27/09, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Liriel

Yes and no.

Healing is not about spamming your best rotation for a given time-frame. It is more about decisions and reaction to something happening out there. So, while some extremes will not be valid you will never get a build that is the best for every situation. Even if we could decode the program-code for holy-priests in every detail that would NOT help us finding an overall stat-balance as you may be able to find for most DPS-builds. It depends much more on a given fight than about how the holy-priest works as a class.

There are short encounters and there are long encounters. Even if that would imply that the short encounter would favor a throughput build and the long encounter would favor a mana build that may be not the case. Maybe the short encounter would need a high number of very expensive spells (PoH/GH) so you would not be able to hold up with a throughput-build. Maybe you would need PoH/GH but would not need big versions of those, even if CoH/FH would be to small in every case (maybe because of a healing-debuff).

On the other hand there may be long encounters with short periods of very high dmg-income and long regen-phases afterwards (or a build-in-regen-buff). Vaelastrasz (or how the second drake in BWL iscalled) would be an example where mana or regen would do nothing at all even if it is a gimick-fight. (Or SoL P2 in BT even if that was a short encounter.)

Anyway while progressing you would not have the optimal set for every encounter and have to balance your best items for something. And since you would like to wear them in many situations you have to make stat-decisions.

well what do you suggest? collecting 5 different gears for each and every situation? of cause encounters are different but your gear isn't. its allways the same. so again, you have to find the most wighted gear to be able to heal in fights that need a lot of throughput aswel as fights that need endurance.
and to get this kind of gear it is possible and important to find out scalings.
additionally the comment "crit is better than haste in this or that situation" is worth NOTHING without the info how mutch it is more worth!
say something is 5 times better versus something is 0.01% better... still one thing is better but the difference is huge!
there need to be some objective numbers to rely on even if they are simplification.

Kryptyx · 04/27/09, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Romeoh

Hi,

Iam new but i have many questions !

1. I tested mutilate and combat on a hero dummy. both about 10mins und in many trys !
with mutilate i did 3200DPS and with combat 2800-2900 DPS ! Is this true ? or is combat only stronger with raidbuffs ???
my rotation 3s/5r/4-5e !!! i hope anyone can help me...

2. yesterday i tested a new specc. 52/13/6. 2 pts in MP & 2pts in TttT. on a hero dummy i did 3,2-3,3k dps easily and TttT didnt activated ! so can someone tell any experience ?

thanks a lot Romeoh !

The answers to your questions can be found on various posts amongst the forums, including the FAQ. However, to answer them more directly...

1. Both specs are about equal, Mutilate will be better in some fights while Combat will be better in others. There is no dominant spec now, besides perhaps HAT with a stacked group.

Also, it's not really wise to judge what spec will be better based off a target dummy unless you have 24 other players there with you, buffing you while debuffing the dummy to simulate a real raid encounter, even then you need to factor in movement and error that will occur in a typical fight.

2. See the answer to 1.

Romeoh · 04/27/09, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Kryptyx

The answers to your questions can be found on various posts amongst the forums, including the FAQ. However, to answer them more directly...

1. Both specs are about equal, Mutilate will be better in some fights while Combat will be better in others. There is no dominant spec now, besides perhaps HAT with a stacked group.

Also, it's not really wise to judge what spec will be better based off a target dummy unless you have 24 other players there with you, buffing you while debuffing the dummy to simulate a real raid encounter, even then you need to factor in movement and error that will occur in a typical fight.

2. See the answer to 1.

i want know, anyone tested this specc in compare to 51/13/7 ? not to combat !
is it worth, that you take 2pts ind MP and TttT and lose 4% chance to geht 25energy for 1 CP ?

Thanks

Xaoc · 04/27/09, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Romeoh

Hi,

Iam new but i have many questions !

1. I tested mutilate and combat on a hero dummy. both about 10mins und in many trys !
with mutilate i did 3200DPS and with combat 2800-2900 DPS ! Is this true ? or is combat only stronger with raidbuffs ???
my rotation 3s/5r/4-5e !!! i hope anyone can help me...

2. yesterday i tested a new specc. 52/13/6. 2 pts in MP & 2pts in TttT. on a hero dummy i did 3,2-3,3k dps easily and TttT didnt activated ! so can someone tell any experience ?

thanks a lot Romeoh !

Combat damage is going to be much better in a raid environment with all of its buffs. Because Mut's damage is much more nature based, its easy to get skewed results on a test dummy.

The same thing can be said for the spec you tested. Unless you have full raid (de)buffs, its extremely difficult to do any real testing for DPS. That is why we have spreadsheets and simulators. They do all the hard work for us in figuring out what spec/gear combo works out best for us.

Kryptyx · 04/27/09, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Romeoh

i want know, anyone tested this specc in compare to 51/13/7 ? not to combat !
is it worth, that you take 2pts ind MP and TttT and lose 4% chance to geht 25energy for 1 CP ?

Thanks

Check a spreadsheet be sure, I would assume however that 51/13/7 would be superior as it has been tested pretty thoroughly.

Originally Posted by Xaoc

Combat damage is going to be much better in a raid environment with all of its buffs. Because Mut's damage is much more nature based, its easy to get skewed results on a test dummy.

The same thing can be said for the spec you tested. Unless you have full raid (de)buffs, its extremely difficult to do any real testing for DPS. That is why we have spreadsheets and simulators. They do all the hard work for us in figuring out what spec/gear combo works out best for us.

I assume you are referring to Combat being better in a raid vs a dummy test and not that Combat is superior to Mutilate in a raid. Just want to clear up any confusion people may have if they mis-read that.

EExx · 04/27/09, 11:41 AM

after reading your link Dahkeus i thought about what the poster was saying a little more. im going to guess that he hasnt done some of the other fights... because hodir u take dmg, mimron u take some, yogg u take some, general the priest wont have the mana most likely... but u take some, ignis u could just run in and out of the flame lol.
Seems like it would work very well, im gonna have a priest try it with me and ill report how it goes.

Batllercool · 04/27/09, 12:20 PM

I just want to say that you have put some great information in there and look forward to helping me play my hunter better.

thank you for all the time you have put in.

Scharfschütz · 04/27/09, 1:18 PM

Originally Posted by alienangel

Dragon's Eye is prismatic, and counts as one gem of each color (simultaneously) for meta-gem requirements. Are you sure your meta was active with the Stormjewel in place?

ah, good catch!

Ancel · 04/27/09, 3:24 PM

Just wondering, what is generally considered the 3.1 max dps spec? It sounds to me like from fight to fight there can be variance, but I would imagine ultimately number crunching should reveal what stands out as the superior specs.

I guess I'm more or less looking for a list of 1) This is best (single target), 2) This is generally near number 1 but only surpasses it in aoe situations, and 3) this is more mana efficient, still competitive, and 'fun.'

The above was more of an example of what the list could look like, I have to admit the mage class in general is a new class to me. I'm used to playing hybrids where you have a dps spec and that's where you hang out. The options between Arcane and Fire and Frostfire and now Frost etc. etc. builds is definitely something else...

Thanks for any input.

Platedpriest · 04/27/09, 5:01 PM

Don't forget about the Stormjewel fishing gems, they are unique-equipped but its a small dps increase nonetheless

Also, has Rawr been updated with all the new hardmode items or will I need to manually add them into rawr?