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Old 05/03/09, 10:53 PM   #4036
kaisuki
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Thaurissan
But Desecration works for all your moves, while Necrosis only buffs up your auto-attack? And shouldn't you be doing SS like, every move? Even with movement oriented fights, they usually have times where they aren't moving and Desecration will benefit you. Especially when most of the time you will be re-applying it every GCD.

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Old 05/03/09, 10:59 PM   #4037
Memento
Angle perpendicular to everything
 
Memento's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Dragonblight
You know, Scene, that's actually a really good idea. Be right back, Lightning Bolt spam on the way.

Originally Posted by Stephen Hawking
The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

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Old 05/03/09, 11:01 PM   #4038
Sekke
Piston Honda
 
Sekke's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by Echinococcus View Post
Bone shield isn't free damage. You lose it too quick to be worth the unholy rune. Of course, it is great at start of combat, but is it good enough?

As for desecration, I've put those talentpoints into necrosis, because it's better for movement heavy fights. I've calculated that I use 1 scourge strike about every 3-5 seconds. And because of that In big movement heavy fights, I don't think it is worth it, since necrosis is better for movement heavy fights, and give almost as much dps increase as desecration (about 0.8% per talent point).
I can't think of any fights that are so movement heavy that Desecration wouldn't be better. Hodir, maybe, or P1 Razorscale (where DPS isn't even a huge deal). Bone Shield also doesn't lose charges on most AOE fights, and it's easy enough to use Blood Tap to put it back up. It's been shown numerous times over the last few pages that tri-spec Unholy is suboptimal.

Il dolce far niente.

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Old 05/03/09, 11:34 PM   #4039
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
Rather than re-invent the wheel...

www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog

Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists

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Old 05/04/09, 12:35 AM   #4040
Mindaika
Piston Honda
 
Mindaika's Avatar
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Frostwolf
Originally Posted by Echinococcus View Post
Bone shield isn't free damage. You lose it too quick to be worth the unholy rune. Of course, it is great at start of combat, but is it good enough?

As for desecration, I've put those talentpoints into necrosis, because it's better for movement heavy fights. I've calculated that I use 1 scourge strike about every 3-5 seconds. And because of that In big movement heavy fights, I don't think it is worth it, since necrosis is better for movement heavy fights, and give almost as much dps increase as desecration (about 0.8% per talent point).
Unless you're tanking, you aren't going to lose Bone Shield until the CD runs down. You only lose charge when you take direct damage, which you shouldn't be taking anyway.

Tastes like Awesome, because it's made of Awesome(TM)

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Old 05/04/09, 4:48 AM   #4041
Foxx2405
Don Flamenco
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by Echinococcus View Post
Bone shield isn't free damage. You lose it too quick to be worth the unholy rune. Of course, it is great at start of combat, but is it good enough?

As for desecration, I've put those talentpoints into necrosis, because it's better for movement heavy fights. I've calculated that I use 1 scourge strike about every 3-5 seconds. And because of that In big movement heavy fights, I don't think it is worth it, since necrosis is better for movement heavy fights, and give almost as much dps increase as desecration (about 0.8% per talent point).
I'm not quite seeing how you draw the conclusion that Necrosis is better than desecration in a movement heavy fight. The second i get back to a mob in a movement heavy fight, desecration is reapplied (either through SS or PS).

When you are out of range to use desecration, you're also out of range to use necrosis. So i fail to see how that works in that case.
I can somewhat see the point if you have to move around in melee range, but desecration radius is often big enough to circumvent this.

Also there are only a handful of fights where you get targeted and attacked by a boss, and in most of those cases it's with enough intervals so you can reapply BS.

Originally Posted by seraphthrone View Post
I'm thinking about giving up EP and put all the points into blood instead of frost. That way you technically only waste 3 points to get all the beneficial non-unholy talents.
You will be looking at something like this: build

So instead, you remove 3 points from EP, 2 points from CF, 2 points from morbidity, all points from frost and put these 17 points into blood. This way you will lose:

10% damage from DC
Tiny bit of damage lost from IT
30 max RP
3% crit from EP, assuming 13% damage is covered by a moonkin.
10% shadow and frost damage

But you gain:
4 RP every 10 seconds
Tiny bit of damage gain from BS through crit and some threat reduction
About 1k AP from bladed armor
4% weapon damage

In the end the second option looks better to me. You get more crit, AP applies to all damage sources, RP generation partly make up for DC damage lost.
Just break it up for a second.

You trade 2 points in Crypt Fever and 3 points in Ebon Plaguebringer for 5 points in Dark Conviction.

Dark Conviction is about 0.55% dps per point (stated several times before in this thread).

My diseases are about 15% of my dps. Increasing that by 10% is 1.5% dps per point.
2 points in crypt fever is already better than 5 points in Dark Conviction.

On top of that you have Ebon Plaguebringer, 13% more magic damage on nearly all your attacks is just too good to pass up. Probably around 8% dps for 3 points.
Sure a warlock or druid can provide this, but none of them can do it as well as a DK does, since ours is easy to spread in aoe. And the warlock one costs the warlock dps (he could have used another curse)

So basically you put those 5 points back in unholy and VOILA. You're right back at the default build that we started with.

The only thing you're trying to discuss is saying that blood > frost as offspec tree. Which is debatable.

Butchery / Subversion / Imp IT and RPM are all faily weak talents. The real battle is between 10% shadow/frost damage vs 4% 2H damage + 400 AP

The AP component is faily static. While in naxx that provided about 10% more AP, in ulduar thats already down to about 6.5% extra AP.

The 4% extra damage applies to white dps, all strikes. BCB.
The 10% extra shadow/frost applies to diseases, scourge strike, DC, UB, Icy Touch

In the end they're likely to be near equal components. Lets for the ease say they both effect about 60% of our total damage. (This is random number, but it puts things in perspective) In which case Black ice boosts dps by 6%, and 2H spec boosts dps by 2.4%.

Blood might be better at the beginning where 400 AP might be better than the 3.6% dps boost that Black Ice provides over 2H spec.
But eventually Black Ice will outscale this.

I'm personally using a blood subspec at the moment. But eventually ill switch to frost.

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Old 05/04/09, 6:30 AM   #4042
druidforever
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Executus (EU)
Yeah the trinket from Ignis would be sweet
I still want more tips/advice from ppl if they have any

OT: Nice 2s rating, you should play my druid up to 1850 so i get a pro tank weapon :p

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Old 05/04/09, 6:39 AM   #4043
VtS
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Shattered Hand
Originally Posted by druidforever View Post
Yeah the trinket from Ignis would be sweet
I still want more tips/advice from ppl if they have any

OT: Nice 2s rating, you should play my druid up to 1850 so i get a pro tank weapon :p
I think the weapons will get toned down or "fixed."

But your hit and expertise looks decent for now. My hit is pretty terrible in my survivability set. Once the DPS start getting BiS I may have to readjust some pieces for TPS.

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Old 05/04/09, 6:58 AM   #4044
Toodels
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
<MCO>
Shadowsong (EU)
Im Looking for an updated Best-in-Slot List. Anyone got one?

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Old 05/04/09, 9:07 AM   #4045
krilz
Don Flamenco
 
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Orc Warlock
 
Laughing Skull (EU)
Originally Posted by nuibank View Post
You shouldn't be using corruption, other than that, it's hard to tell with the few details you provided.
Corruption is good to use if you have the 2pT7-bonus. After that, I honestly don't know.

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Old 05/04/09, 9:25 AM   #4046
angaroth
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether
Originally Posted by Toodels View Post
Im Looking for an updated Best-in-Slot List. Anyone got one?
The OP in the Simulationcraft thread has a pretty close to BIS set for both hit and non-hit. BIS is tricky since not all the loot is known.

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Old 05/04/09, 12:17 PM   #4047
Acaelus
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Uther
Originally Posted by Zoephobia View Post
Because 15'000 Gold is just the kind of cash I don't have.

But that's not why I made this post. When playing around some more with the numbers I noticed one thing: Should a boss be fully raid-debuffed, in this case Sunder and FF, a procc from both Mjolnis and Grim Toll would effectively be over the armorpen cap. With armorpen on gear (which seems to be more common in udluar, at least fpr leather) the overkill would be even higher.
Wouldn't this be somewhat of a waste? (I'm just assuming that bosses can't go below zero armor)
Heh, greatness decks have been falling to as low as 6-7k on my server, but then my server's economy is all kinds of screwed up.

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Old 05/04/09, 12:47 PM   #4048
fistsoffury
 
Orc Warrior
 
Farstriders
looking for help

howdy all
looking for a little help , i am a fury warrior . i am not doing the dps i was doing i now that i got hit with the nerf bat . i have not changed my skills (Bt -WW-HS slam on prorock ) . i have 4300 ap , 36% crit . n my main question is did they fix arp , n do i need to stack it as fury ? n if so what a good % to have ?


ty fists

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Old 05/04/09, 2:55 PM   #4049
Lormalcar
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Kirin Tor
Originally Posted by Alleyra View Post
On a more helpful note, I find a self-cast macro on SS to be quite useful. I'm no macro genius, but it makes it a one button affair and allows me to continue focusing on DPSing.

/target (your name)
/cast Sacred Shield(Rank 1)
/targetlasttarget
I think that a macro like this will work as well

/cast [target=player] Sacred Shield

(or I should say, it does work, assuming I've remembered it correctly).

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Old 05/04/09, 4:10 PM   #4050
justacityboy
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Mage
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by majellah View Post
Still figuring out where to put my Omen and Recount, but meh. I've also switched the minimap to be where it is in the raid shot. Also trying to figure out something I'm happy with for the raid frames as well.

Solo Combat.


Party


Raid


Some addons:
oUF
oUF_Lyn
ButtonFacade
Need to Know
SexyMap
SLDataText
Chatter
ClearFont
TipTac
Would love if you could upload your UI, spefically your unit frames.

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