Originally Posted by Echinococcus
Bone shield isn't free damage. You lose it too quick to be worth the unholy rune. Of course, it is great at start of combat, but is it good enough?
As for desecration, I've put those talentpoints into necrosis, because it's better for movement heavy fights. I've calculated that I use 1 scourge strike about every 3-5 seconds. And because of that In big movement heavy fights, I don't think it is worth it, since necrosis is better for movement heavy fights, and give almost as much dps increase as desecration (about 0.8% per talent point).
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I'm not quite seeing how you draw the conclusion that Necrosis is better than desecration in a movement heavy fight. The second i get back to a mob in a movement heavy fight, desecration is reapplied (either through SS or PS).
When you are out of range to use desecration, you're also out of range to use necrosis. So i fail to see how that works in that case.
I can somewhat see the point if you have to move around in melee range, but desecration radius is often big enough to circumvent this.
Also there are only a handful of fights where you get targeted and attacked by a boss, and in most of those cases it's with enough intervals so you can reapply BS.
Originally Posted by seraphthrone
I'm thinking about giving up EP and put all the points into blood instead of frost. That way you technically only waste 3 points to get all the beneficial non-unholy talents.
You will be looking at something like this: build
So instead, you remove 3 points from EP, 2 points from CF, 2 points from morbidity, all points from frost and put these 17 points into blood. This way you will lose:
10% damage from DC
Tiny bit of damage lost from IT
30 max RP
3% crit from EP, assuming 13% damage is covered by a moonkin.
10% shadow and frost damage
But you gain:
4 RP every 10 seconds
Tiny bit of damage gain from BS through crit and some threat reduction
About 1k AP from bladed armor
4% weapon damage
In the end the second option looks better to me. You get more crit, AP applies to all damage sources, RP generation partly make up for DC damage lost.
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Just break it up for a second.
You trade 2 points in Crypt Fever and 3 points in Ebon Plaguebringer for 5 points in Dark Conviction.
Dark Conviction is about 0.55% dps per point (stated several times before in this thread).
My diseases are about 15% of my dps. Increasing that by 10% is 1.5% dps per point.
2 points in crypt fever is already better than 5 points in Dark Conviction.
On top of that you have Ebon Plaguebringer, 13% more magic damage on nearly all your attacks is just too good to pass up. Probably around 8% dps for 3 points.
Sure a warlock or druid can provide this, but none of them can do it as well as a DK does, since ours is easy to spread in aoe. And the warlock one costs the warlock dps (he could have used another curse)
So basically you put those 5 points back in unholy and VOILA. You're right back at the default build that we started with.
The only thing you're trying to discuss is saying that blood > frost as offspec tree. Which is debatable.
Butchery / Subversion / Imp IT and RPM are all faily weak talents. The real battle is between 10% shadow/frost damage vs 4% 2H damage + 400 AP
The AP component is faily static. While in naxx that provided about 10% more AP, in ulduar thats already down to about 6.5% extra AP.
The 4% extra damage applies to white dps, all strikes. BCB.
The 10% extra shadow/frost applies to diseases, scourge strike, DC, UB, Icy Touch
In the end they're likely to be near equal components. Lets for the ease say they both effect about 60% of our total damage. (This is random number, but it puts things in perspective) In which case Black ice boosts dps by 6%, and 2H spec boosts dps by 2.4%.
Blood might be better at the beginning where 400 AP might be better than the 3.6% dps boost that Black Ice provides over 2H spec.
But eventually Black Ice will outscale this.
I'm personally using a blood subspec at the moment. But eventually ill switch to frost.