Thanks for the clarification. I should have looked at my in game tabs instead of trusting armory.

Sorry to ask such a nub question here but I can't find the answer anywhere. How much haste should I be shooting for as Arcane? What's the cap?

Hi guys....I was just thinking yesterday....Ok Incite is Nice ....gives us 20% extra crit on HS and 15% on Cleave and is awesome for ToC.

How about a build like this though???

The World of Warcraft Armory


that build with either glyph of cleave or glyph of bladestorm would be for fights with aoe depending on whether more than 2 targets to aoe (Anub, Kolog) or just 2 (Twin Valkyr). My thought behind it is that ok I may not have the 15% chance to crit extra on cleave which will apply the DW to targets easier as welll but I was thinkin of the following:

with 120% extra dmg, cleave instead of an average 2800-3000 hit dmg it will have an average hit of approx. 4.5 to 5k. Now that means that when it crits it will be about 10-11k no? maybe even a bit more....wouldnt that overall be more dmg in a long run than criting for 6-7k avg without imp cleave? and with ICC comin we will get back to around 40-43% unbuffed crit so about 50% buffed so it will probably be preferred to incite build for aoe fights....then an Incite Build with Bladestorm or Execute glyph would be the preffered single target spec....so you got both and switch around through dual spec as neccesary....your thoughts would be appreciated

No, imp cleave works on BONUS cleave damage. Meaning instead of 210 or w/e it is EXTRA dmg, you get 460 or so (rough numbers). if it was +120% TOTAL cleave damage, then noone would ever play arms - fury cleave build would dominate everything :0.

Now the build I came up with - and so far had some testing on (not enough to recommend to anyone, but enough to start a discussion) - is an aoe arms build:
The World of Warcraft Armory
Glyphs of Execute/Cleave/Rending
The key though - its DUAL WIELD arms. You dual wield - FAST axe MH, and fast oh - preferably a sword (thus dual axe/sword spec) for maximum rage gain. Drawback is - you have to get access to the 1handers comparable with your 2h.

So far testing limited to stuff like kologarn is pretty successful - my gear is FAR from optimal and i can get results close to my TG build (aka 11k+ dps)

Why this build works?

First of all, it makes full use of cleave. Compared to TG it has +15.3% cleave damage (TG penalty/2h spec/wrecking crew effects summed up) and +20% cleave critical chance Axe spec adds another 4% damage or so (with the insanely high crit rate - in realms of 80%+ for cleave ) for total of 20% dmg AND 20% crit - or if you prefer around 35% extra damage . Both are huge - and offset lack of Flurry easily. The fact that weapons are fast doesnt actually matter for cleave - since the rage cost is so much lower (counting the MH swing loss), and endless rage. Faster cleave use also nullifies lack of imp cleave. So overall even with lesser weapons and stats on them we do MORE cleave damage.

For single target dps we have execute. Execute that unlike fury version hits really hard (axe spec no tg penalty enrage vs loss of 2h spec) - around 20-25% harder. With a 1.5 speed weapons counting raid buffs, some moderate haste, blood frenzy we are talking about around 4 hits per second - 3 cleave hits and 1 offhand swing. Couple it up with instants, and we talk about 7 attacks every gcd - each having 9% chance of proccing SD. Other gcd are filled with rend/op, and occasional MS - or just regenerating rage. Below 20% you can simply spam execute/cleave with VERY good results.

This is mostly a curiosity build - it doesnt work at all for single target (although some single target arms playstyles MIGHT work with icecrown gear - they seem to scale faster. Too early for me to tell - I personally doubt it, but dont discard possibility that it might work). It excels on fight like anub - with prolonged sub 20% phase, and constant adds - but even then - in my guild we kill adds too fast recently for this build to "work" (as in be competitive with TG). But Ive seen a lot of guilds doing more single target damage, and less add aoe - which propels this build.

However unlike other "curiosity builds" this one is actually somewhat viable, and in certain circumstances, can be a build of choice for Anub, and maybe few other fights.

Damm I must have been so tired when I was thinkin of it last night...you are TOTALLY right Shha ...didnt think the bonus is only on the extra dmg of cleave hahaha....

Well I do not think that in any case 1hander dual wieldin would surpass the damage of a 2hander since you will have low dmg on Overpower low damage on Mortal Strike, Low Damage on Slam and on almost every attack of arms, which is preety much BASED for the most part on Weapon Damage + mechanics.

Now of course theory applies different in game than in the mind so you may be right and it may be nicer for aoe....but I d assume you mean with the Lionheart Axe from Anub 605 Top End dmg and such weapons....with those maybe it would do nice damage. But I cant see how 1200 Max dmg ilvl 258 [Justicebringer] would be beat by any comp of 1 handers ...that weapon has evil power on it!!

I want to complain about the upgrade items available for (most) of us elem shamans.

Atm we have cleared all up to Anub 25 HM.

My upgrades are:

- All T9.5 items (not obtainable as we haven't killed Anub 25 Hm yet). I also think it is rather stupid that we wont get any token until we kill the end boss. So to get even 1 item (let alone the whole set) will probably take too long. Thus keeping T9.25.

- Reign of the Death. You need Anub again. Beside that i have the normal version so people might get a bit annoyed if i take both. Flare of Heavens is nice but we don't go to Vezax Hm anymore. Thus keeping normal one + Abyssal Rune.

- Misery's End. You need Anub again. Shield is obtainable (champions) but only viable if you also have access to a good 1-hand. Thus keeping Illumination.

- Darkmender ring. Probably too much complaints from healers. Thus keeping Nebula + Kirin.

- Aethas' Intensity. Need to kill Anub and without wipes as well. Thus keeping IC Hm cloak.

- Gloves that i am interested in (Lifeless Touch) are also from Anub.

So only (minor) upgrades i can actually get are:
- Valkyr neck (Twins)
- Boots (Champions)
- Belt (Champions)

Beside that i also have a zillion of Triumph badges. Except from the totem we didnt get anything useful.

I do understand that i might have (access to) better gear than some of you, but when i hear a RL friend playing rogue say all the time that there are so many upgrades for him still it is kinda annoying as he outdpses me on a standard fight already without many upgrades for me in the near future.

/end of complaining.

ye but in those cases that you will have to use MS or OP it will hit for very low damage compared to having a 2hander and SD will not proc so often as to cover every global cooldown regardless of the amount of hits you do between every global cooldown I think. In addition even the cleave and HS spammin would have reduced damage because of using one handers...and also you have to think that you wont even have dual wield specialization so your offhand will produce very little rage because it hits so little. lastly you have to also remember that you will have TONS of misses because automatically after dual wielding our 7% (with shammie) or 8% hit will seem a bit low without precision talent in such fast weapon speeds and there will be so many misses as I already said. Deep Wounds Damage will be reduced rend damage will be reduced....overall I dont see how you can cover all of the above damage reduction, just from the fact of hitting faster and assuming SD will proc every gcd....keep the test though and link some results

Thanks so much =)
I'll keep sticking with my molten then

affliction warlocks do 12k+ in execute range , nothing new there, except that it starts sooner

Ok so I just got the Bloodfang hood off ONY25, and i know that it's a damn good head piece, but would it be worth losing the tier 8.5 4 set pice bonus? Assuming of course that i use the exact same gems and enchants and that i have a tier 8.5 helm as things stand right now

Thanks for all the great tips on glyphs and rotations, that will be very helpful on maximizing my dps, a lot has to do with my gear but my dps is so bad im having a hard time getting the right rotations.

The following is a list of dps strategies that I have given to rogues that have just started raiding.
The below lists follow the below listed rules

3 or more Mobs = FoK
ToT the tanks before any AoE and before every boss pull
Mutilate starts the fight in Stealth with sprint up
Energy pooling is a possibility for succesful AoE however energy is never to be capped
Mutilate rogues use Vanish before FoK on adds that survive longer than 5 seconds
If the boss will die in approximately 10 seconds do not use Rupture


Naxxramas

Anub'Rekhan
-Mutilate

• -Burn all cooldowns from the start, or save cold blood for a FoK on the small scarabs

-Combat

• -Burn all cooldowns from the start, or save ToT for when the first scarab comes out and use Blade flurry and Killing

spree at the same time

Grand Widow Faerlina(Most groups do the achievement where you burn the boss)
-Mutilate

• -Coldblood + FoK on the adds, General rule if there are 3 or more adds up use FoK
• -Once there are less than 3 adds up continue to burn the boss, using CoS when helpful

-Combat

• -Killingspree + Blade Flurry the adds then use FoK until there are less than 3 remaining. If there are more than 3 remaining use Adrenaline Rush to use FoK more then continue to the boss using cool downs whenever they are up.

Maexxna
-Mutilate

• -Dps the boss while watching boss timers to see when the adds are coming out
• -Energy pool while keeping SnD,Rupture, HfB up. Vanish 1-2 seconds before adds spawn and Coldblood + FoK

-Combat

• -Dps the boss while watching boss timers to see when the adds are coming out
• -Use Blade flurry + Killing spree and time the adds properly with it

Noth the Plaguebringer
-Mutilate

• -Burn the boss until the adds come out. Mattering on your tank set up AoE if the adds are pulled together otherwise single target and do not pull aggro.

-Combat

• -Burn the boss and save cooldowns for the adds to maximize AoE damage on them.

Heigan the Unclean
-Mutilate

• -Burn the boss using all cd's whenever they are up, use CoS when the poison debuff is on you and you have below 5k health

-Combat

• -Burn the boss using Killing spree whenever CoS is also up to remove the poison, use all other cooldowns whenever they are up.

Loatheb
-Mutilate

• -If you are in a pug, grab the spores whenever possible and there is not a large group going for it
• -If you are in an organized guild group, go with your proper group to kill it
• -Use all cd's whenever they are up, there are no adds, save Coldblood for a 5 point Envenom
• -Use rupture ONLY to keep up Hunger For Blood if needed, otherwise use envenom

-Combat

• -Save all cooldowns until you have Fungal creep which is gained from spores.
• -Do not use Rupture, Use Evicerate

Instructor Razuvious
-Mutilate

• -Burn the boss and do not use FoK

-Combat

• -Burn the boss using Killing Spree and Blade Flurry whenever Vanish is up. Use Adrenaline Rush whenever it is up.

Gothik the Harvester (One sided strat, follow the rules of AoE for two sided or one sided strat)
-Mutilate

• -Follow the proper AoE rules until the boss comes out
• -Save sprint for the bosses first transition

-Combat

• -Once the higher waves come out use Blade Flurry + Killing Spree for added AoE damage
• -Use FoK properly with the 3+ targets rule
• -Generally save Adrenaline Rush for the boss

The Four Horsemen
-Mutilate

• -Burn all cooldowns on the first horse
• -Save sprint for the transition from the front horses to the back horse

-Combat

• -Burn all cooldowns on the first horse
• -Save sprint for the transition from the front horses to the back horse

Patchwerk
-Mutilate

• -Burn all cooldowns whenever they are up
• -Use evasion and vanish according to threat percentage

-Combat

• -Burn all cooldowns whenever they are up
• -Use evasion and vanish according to threat percentage

Grobbulus
-Mutilate

• -Burn the boss and do not use FoK

-Combat

• -Burn the boss saving Blade Flurry + Killing spree for 2+ adds
• - Use all other cooldowns whenever they are up

Gluth
-Mutilate

• -Burn the boss and save Coldblood if the group is not kiting the adds

-Combat

• -Burn the boss and save Killing Spree + Blade Flurry for the adds if the group is not kiting them

Thaddius
-Mutilate

• -Do not waste cooldowns on the 2 adds before the boss pull

-Combat

• -Do not waste cooldowns on the 2 adds before the boss pull
• -Be cautious with Killing Spree and its ability to move you (Crossing charges is bad)

Sapphiron (Standard dragon rules apply eg. Stay away from the head and tail)
-Mutilate

• -Burn the boss
• -When the dragon is up stay near to the center to gain added time on the boss then run away according to the timer

-Combat

• -Burn the boss
• -Make sure to use your cooldowns so that you get the full time duration of them

Kel'Thuzad (Kick frostbolts when possible)
-Mutilate

• -Save cooldowns for when the boss comes out
• -Burn all cooldowns when up

-Combat

• -Save cooldowns for when the boss comes out
• -Be cautious with Killing spree because it moves you and this can cause a chain iceblock to the tank
• -Use all other cooldowns when up. (Blade Flurry + Killing Spree can be used on the adds if they are tanked on the boss, however this dps is pointless)

Ulduar

Razorscale
-Mutilate

• -Use FoK whenever 3 or more adds are grouped together
• -Use Cold Blood for a FoK or 5 point envenom

-Combat

• -Save Cooldowns for the boss
• -Added dps can be gained by using Blade Flurry + Killing Spree (This dps is pointless)

XT-002 Deconstructor
-Mutialte

• -Save all cooldowns for the heart

-Combat

• -Save all cooldowns for the heart

Trial of the Crusader

Northrend Beasts
-Mutilate

• -Dismantle the boss whenever possible
• -Stay grouped up with the melee and only single target the boss or an add by tab targeting
• -Save CoS for proper use in Phase 2 to gain added dps time on the boss and added survivability

-Combat

• -Dismantle the boss whenever possible
• -When a kobold spawns on the melee use Blade Flurry + Killing Spree for added dps
• -Save CoS for proper use in Phase 2 to gain added dps time on the boss and added survivability

Lord Jaraxxus
-Mutilate

• -Burn the boss saving CoS for Incinerate Flesh
• -If you are interrupting the boss maximize dps between kicks

-Combat

• -Burn the boss saving CoS for Incinerate Flesh
• -If you are interrupting the boss maximize dps between kicks
• -Use Killing Spree and Blade flurry cautiously do to re-targeting and character displacement away from the boss

Faction Champions (With Mortal Strike warrior in raid, if there is not make sure a combat rogue has on Wound Poison)
-Mutilate

• -Burn the kill targets if you are not interupting
• -Use CoS and Evasion when possible to add extra dps uptime. (Life> Dps)

-Combat

• -Burn Blade Flurry + Killing spree off the pull
• -After that it is up to the raid leaders disgression when you may AoE and switch targets.
• -Use Adrenaline Rush on the first target and whenever it is up.

Twin Val'kyr (Tanked Together)
-Mutilate

• -Burn all Cooldowns when possible
• -Manage your time getting orbs(Do not chase orbs endlessly and never attack the bosses)
• -Save sprint for the switching of colors during the AoE

-Combat

• -Burn all Cooldowns once the bosses are pulled together
• -Manage your time getting orbs(Do not chase orbs endlessly and never attack the bosses)
• -If you see your stacks are getting close to 100 save Cooldowns for the enrage buff
• -Save sprint for the switching of colors during the AoE

Anub'arak
-Multate

• -Burn the boss using all Cooldowns when posssible
• -When 2 adds are tanked on the boss keep Anbu'arak targeted and use FoK + Cold Blood
• -On scarab phase during the transitions stay alive while single targeting or FoK when 3+ are in range

-Combat

• -Burn the boss saving Cooldowns for 2+adds when Anub'arak is up
• -On scarab phase during the transitions stay alive while single targeting or FoK when 3+ are in range

did a search, but could not find anything...

what professions benefit the warrior most end game?

i was looking at blacksmithing, for the two additional sockets, but wasnt sure where else to go

figured maybe JCing, since it will net me better stats from my sockets, which will be even better when combined with the bonus two) but sticking with mining also seems like a decent plan, since i get an additional 55 Sta that wont involve taking up an gem slots

also, maybe enchanting? are the rings the only ench only buffs available?

Has anyone else noticed that the map of Onyxia's lair is bugged?
I have this problem with my pet not casting Rabid even tho it is on auto cast and he had over 90 focus.
I believe Raibd / CotW where off the GCD so it should trigger as soon as the CD is finished.

I have to 2 macros, 1 with /petautocastoff *spell* & another with /petautocaston *spell* with the spells I want toggled on or off the auto-cast.
I do this after zoning in,pet dies, pet gets ressed, I die, get ressed, zone in , summon ect.ect.ect

Using a macro like this.

#showtooltip Steady Shot
#show Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/cast Silencing Shot
/cast Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()


Is there anything on the macro that might be making my pet not cast Rabid, even tho it's on auto cast & has focus for it? Or is a map bug with Onyxia's Lair

That fixed it. Thanks

Has anyone else noticed that the map of Onyxia's lair is bugged?
I have this problem with my pet not casting Rabid even tho it is on auto cast and he had over 90 focus.
I believe Raibd / CotW where off the GCD so it should trigger as soon as the CD is finished.

I have to 2 macros, 1 with /petautocastoff *spell* & another with /petautocaston *spell* with the spells I want toggled on or off the auto-cast.
I do this after zoning in,pet dies, pet gets ressed, I die, get ressed, zone in , summon ect.ect.ect

Using a macro like this.

#showtooltip Steady Shot
#show Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/cast Silencing Shot
/cast Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()


Is there anything on the macro that might be making my pet not cast Rabid, even tho it's on auto cast & has focus for it? Or is a map bug with Onyxia's Lair

Is there a certain level of stats that will make a Rupture-less build/cycle for a combat rogue with mace specialization overtake a rupture/eviscerate cycle? I've googled it and looked though some threads on these forums and can't seem to find an answer.

EDIT: I would use the spreadsheet, but my Office 2007 trial just ran out and it will not let me change any of the options in view only mode.

Has anyone else noticed that the map of Onyxia's lair is bugged?
I have this problem with my pet not casting Rabid even tho it is on auto cast and he had over 90 focus.
I believe Raibd / CotW where off the GCD so it should trigger as soon as the CD is finished.

I have to 2 macros, 1 with /petautocastoff *spell* & another with /petautocaston *spell* with the spells I want toggled on or off the auto-cast.
I do this after zoning in,pet dies, pet gets ressed, I die, get ressed, zone in , summon ect.ect.ect

Using a macro like this.

#showtooltip Steady Shot
#show Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/cast Silencing Shot
/cast Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()


Is there anything on the macro that might be making my pet not cast Rabid, even tho it's on auto cast & has focus for it? Or is a map bug with Onyxia's Lair

T10 Sigil: Item - Death Knight T10 DPS Relic (Obliterate, Scourge Strike, Death Strike) - Your Obliterate, Scourge Strike, and Death Strike abilities grants 73 Strength for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.

That sounds incredibly nice.

Nope.

Awesome math and facts to back up your answer buddy.

We all know shadow bolt beats incinerate currently for a meta/ruin build, but with a 15% buff to it's damage from MC (up from 10%), and maybe an additional 5% from incinerate glyph, it might actually be worth running some numbers to see if it is indeed more DPS on the long run to weave incinerate in during MC uptime, instead of dismissing it with a useless post.

So I’m thinking of buying the tier 9 hands and get the 4 piece set bonus. But for this to happen I need to get rid of my tier 8.5 hands which will lose in 60 expertise. Which will make me gem +20 expertise on 6 of my gems. My question is the expertise cap that important to make me gem 6 of my gems to be expertise? Halp