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Old 06/19/09, 3:16 PM   #5491
Kitteh
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Twilight's Hammer (EU)
Originally Posted by Barlo View Post
My skills with Excel are severely limited and as simple as this sounds; its beyond me. Any chance you could post a version with the Blacksmithing options in place?
I'm at work at the moment but i'll edit this post tomorrow with a link to it.

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Old 06/19/09, 3:59 PM   #5492
Krisx
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Perenolde
axes?

Use of Axes in 3.2 .......... WOW... just WOW...

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Old 06/19/09, 6:42 PM   #5493
iampk
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Kilrogg (EU)
We have clearly stated to Blizzard that Shamans have really Low HP.
Searching on internet we see that:
"Base health values at level 80
These are the correct values as of Patch 3.0.9.
Base health - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft "


Class Base health value

Death Knight 8121
Druid 7417
Hunter 7324
Mage 6963
Paladin 6934
Priest 6960
Rogue 7604
Shaman 6485
Warlock 7164
Warrior 8121

Shaman on live server have 6485 while a Priest has 6960 looking even more at rest melee classes we notice that

Death Knight 8121
Warrior 8121
Rogue 7604
Druid 7417 ( CAT FORM)
Paladin 6934
Shaman 6485
Paladins and Shamans are on the bottom of the chain, therefor paladins are plate wearers so the problem of health is solved for them from their gear. On the other hand shamans with mail armor suffer alot more from chained damage. Reading more carefully the new patch notes from mmo-champion we see that the buff we receive is 7% on base health.

"Base health increased by approximately 7% to correct for shamans having lower health than other classes."
Making the calculations with live number the results are:
6485*7/100=453.95+6485=6938.95
or
6485*1.07=6938.95

So Shamans and Paladins will have same HP ~6940. Now lets see...6940 + mail gear vs 6940 + plate gear...paladin are in better condition. Lets compare Shamans with rest NON plate gear dps
Rogue 7604
Druid 7417 ( CAT FORM)
Shaman 6940

As we see shaman's base health is almost 664 less than a rogue again and 477 from a druid...Problem is not solved it still there and if we take a better look at the gear of t7 and t8 we notice that there is a stamina reduction too. Overall a ~480 hp will not solve shaman's HP problem on Hard modes.

In order the buff to bring us in parallel with rest melee dps classes it should be +15% or +20% so we can reach either Druids or Rogues.

If you think that this post is not related to our shaman please delete it. But i hate to spent maelstorm stacks on predicted times to keep me up, when other dpsers do not even bother to look their hp bar.

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Old 06/19/09, 6:51 PM   #5494
Raetha
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by Daedalix View Post
If their aim was to hurt DK tanking, they would have played with our cooldowns and not our base numbers for hp and mitigation. These are long-term scaling changes designed to fix an imminent problem.
But they did. They increased Icebound to 2 minutes. I agree with the latter, but they did even include nerfs to cooldowns.

Seeing as we currently scale way better than other tanks that are receiving the buffs, these tweaks to our armor and HP will be covered up by how well we still scale compared to warriors and paladins (you could easily argue against this statement but I'd have to look at some numbers for how blocking will be affected first).
I think that the numbers thing you mentioned that would convince you will be necessary for me to believe that we still scale enough to make up for this. However, in theory, what happens is that we don't have block, and block is being doubled in essence, while our passive reduction is "in line" with other classes. One could argue about our cooldowns, but again, Icebound was nerfed as well. In a way, this is a double-nerf of sorts. I have no problem being the offtank and staying in that position. But the changes interfere even with that particular job.

You'll notice druid tanking is unchanged.
Not sure how that applies to us but yeah, I think people noticed that one. Can you clarify whether you mean that druid tanking is perfect so doesn't need a tweak, or that you think they are getting a "nerfbat" by not being buffed through shield block? From what I'm gathering, its as if you feel druids are in between warrior/pally and DK tanking. I'm not sure I'm convinced that this is the case, as it depends on play-style of healers.

Scaling changes is also why they changed our Toughness. If you're hitting armor cap under certain situations already, how out of control do you think things will be when you're in T9?
I'm not sure who's actually hitting armor cap with the previous nerf to Frost Presence. Certainly the changes to healers so they don't give you armor will keep us from hitting it though.

These changes should bring us down to druid levels and warriors and paladins up to par. While I dislike my class getting hurt, I believe we are currently too powerful and can stand to take a hit.
I have no problem with Warriors and Paladins being "brought up to par." What it does feel like is that they are both raising effectiveness of paladins and warriors, while nerfing the DK's. One or the other would have been fine. Doing both seems a bit excessive. That said, the previous nerf to Frost Presence already interfered with my tanking. I'm unsure how the new changes are necessary. If I had only a few of them to look at, like a change to icebound to 2 minutes and that alone, I could probably live with that as I felt it was overpowered. As it stands, nerfing us so that we need to use those cooldowns to survive, and then also nerfing icebound at the same time despite the fact that we don't have block value is too much.

As our Off-tank, I currently have worse gear but roughly 3k more armor, 1k more hp, and the same avoidance as our Paladin MT who is in a bunch of BiS. I have better cooldowns. It was a joke. Hopefully these changes will put us all more in line. By then I'll have more Hardmode gear and won't be worried about an HP and armor tweak and neither should you.
But the problem is, the armor and HP is supposed to offset the fact that we have no block. Again, the cooldowns are being tweaked as well. I think that perhaps with the fact that you're not Unholy-specialized, the nerfs may not be as problematic to you. But with the loss of Unholy Blight as an aoe aggro, the loss of Desecration as a snare + aggro improving skill in one, the fact that very little of our tanking is done by death coiling since most of our runic is burned through rune strikes, and obviously the fact that we're "third in line" in DK tanking - all this contributes to the feeling people get about the nerfs in general.

The answer to all this seems to come in the form of "DK tanks will merely have to spec either blood or frost (frost preferably) to have a good chance of doing their job." This flies in the face of their design making each tree both a tanking and DPS tree. I'm not sure what Blizzard is intending here, and I feel that they are perhaps overcompensating for the fact that Unholy has been the most popular tree up until now.

As a note: Prior to the previous patch, I felt that I was way overpowered compared to our main tank Warrior. I would often get the request to main tank instead of him. After that patch, I was not asked to do so again, and I took very spiky/scary damage. With the nerfs to armor, I can no longer hold a ton of mobs on me and expect to miraculously live. And that's fine, as I felt we were overpowered, and was willing to live with it. This on the other hand is on an entirely different scale.

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Old 06/19/09, 8:31 PM   #5495
Gunner52
Glass Joe
 
Gunner52's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Deathwing
Hey all, I've read the last two pages and the first page, I just switched from dps to tank yesterday and I am sitting in full blues, using armageddon as my tanking weapon and the Emblem sigil. I lack tank trinkets and rings but I am working on getting those, I am sitting at like 547 def without sigil proc and 557 with it (Off top of my head.) What I'm curious to know is are these 3.2 changes going to hurt the gearing up tank? I'm sitting at low health, I lose health from my dps to my tank gear (like 1k) but I see the health nerf in Frost pres, and I rely on good healers and my cds to not die on most fights in heroics.

I also see the nerf to toughness as cause of concern for a new dk tank, when you have those blues from rep and crafted maybe a epic or two from a drop from a heroic or a bud hooked you up, the extra armor from toughness is really nice for getting that extra chance of not dieing from that scary boss you have never tanked before. I know the main reason it was nerfed is that people put points in it for pvp but that can be solved by moving it up the tree more, not by nerfing it.

Also I was looking at the Tempered Titansteel Helm (Crafted BS epic tank helm) and compared it to my current rare Tempered Saronitee Heml or something like that (crafted Bs item) and I lose about 36-37 def (rating) but gain a meta and a gem socket. Does that outweigh the lose of my def, granted I am over cap. And the same with the boots, I have the rep boots from Wyrmrest (I think thats the rep) and they have like 10 more def rating then the crafted ones. Any ideas?

P.S. I know my belt has block rating on it, but I don't have anything else....go ahead laugh.

Thanks!

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Old 06/19/09, 9:15 PM   #5496
Raetha
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Suramar
Most of those questions are answered in other threads, such as the DK tanking thread that seems to be more for new tanks. But I'll answer your questions with pretty much one word: Yes.

To elaborate:

Yes it will affect you, but your problem lies in your gear. Running heroics daily will help you gear up, as you get items not only from drops but from the emblems.

Yes, the titansteel is better than your saronite. You said something about your health/stam. Titansteel has a lot more on it, along with a slot for Austere Earthsiege diamond and a stam gem.

Yes, you are overcapped on def so the loss of def (so long as you don't lower yourself below cap) is worth it. Even if it does lower you below the cap, getting rings/better items will help you with that.

The only ideas I can come up with are to get BoE epics, whether they are craftables or vendor or drops from bosses. As it stands, Bracers of Dalaran's Parapets are likely to be very cheap lately. The titansteel helm will be better for you too.

In a nutshell, there are a number of tanking threads in the forum besides this one. Many contain upgrade information, ideas for tanking, and other good notes. If you read through them I'm sure you will find the answer to many of your questions.

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Old 06/19/09, 9:37 PM   #5497
cagome95
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Deathwing
what is a the hit cap?

Well curently my hit is low its 1.71% i don't have a problem with threat but when i need to taunt it seems to miss often. my question is does growl have its own hit cap, or do i have to have as much hit as a mele would have in a raid.

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Old 06/19/09, 9:43 PM   #5498
Gunner52
Glass Joe
 
Gunner52's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Deathwing
Originally Posted by Raetha View Post
Most of those questions are answered in other threads, such as the DK tanking thread that seems to be more for new tanks. But I'll answer your questions with pretty much one word: Yes.

To elaborate:

Yes it will affect you, but your problem lies in your gear. Running heroics daily will help you gear up, as you get items not only from drops but from the emblems.

Yes, the titansteel is better than your saronite. You said something about your health/stam. Titansteel has a lot more on it, along with a slot for Austere Earthsiege diamond and a stam gem.

Yes, you are overcapped on def so the loss of def (so long as you don't lower yourself below cap) is worth it. Even if it does lower you below the cap, getting rings/better items will help you with that.

The only ideas I can come up with are to get BoE epics, whether they are craftables or vendor or drops from bosses. As it stands, Bracers of Dalaran's Parapets are likely to be very cheap lately. The titansteel helm will be better for you too.

In a nutshell, there are a number of tanking threads in the forum besides this one. Many contain upgrade information, ideas for tanking, and other good notes. If you read through them I'm sure you will find the answer to many of your questions.
Thanks bunch, in all honostity I thought this was the only tank thread, sorry to put my new tank questions in the more advanced thread, but the answers help.

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Old 06/19/09, 10:02 PM   #5499
budhabless
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Spirestone
I've changed my UI around alot here you can check sum of them out...dont mind the old pics my Ui then was a complete mess...check the most recent UI pics I think its the best I had so far

Pictures by KKKillaz - Photobucket

I've used both xperl and pitbull personally i like xperl better
Bartender
DBM
Yata
fubar
Prat
Quartz
Recount
SatrinaBuffFrame
ShamanFriend
Simple minimap
SLDataText
TinyTip

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Old 06/19/09, 10:53 PM   #5500
GtMega
 
GtMega's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Burning Legion
help pls

Hey guys i have a cupple of questions i am a new resto druid i used to play a holy pally before but now i am rolling resto because of the druid ability to top the meter. i have kinda gotten the hang of all the new spells and i admit i have not read all 63 pages here but i have read alot of them, i am having problems when i want to rejv a good chunk of the raid, what i have been doing is putting wildgrowth on the raid because i dont have 2 wait for the GCD to take effect when i rejuv i feel like i am wasting so much time waiting 4 the GCD, am i? also regrowth lasts longer so it has been my tendence to use that even though it costs dubble the mana. from what i have read as a druid i shouldnt need to use my interavte on myself but i find myself doing that anyway so anyone have any thoughts or comments 2 help me out? sry if my spelling and grammer makes anyone mad i typed this quick.

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Old 06/19/09, 10:57 PM   #5501
Embalm
 
Undead Rogue
 
Terenas
Originally Posted by Caliste View Post
Textures are from Crow's Butterfly UI (took me a while to find).



Addons:
SLDatatext
Pitbull
Bartender 4
Sexymap
Kgpanels
Grid
Clique
Tip Tac
Clique
pChat
Hey Caliste, you wouldn't be able to remember where you found the Crow Butterfly UI art would you? I've been looking for ages but all the links I find are outdated. I used to use Fairy UI back in the day, and this is similarily gorgeous. I'd love love love being able to track it down.

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Old 06/20/09, 6:28 AM   #5502
Obliterus
Glass Joe
 
Obliterus's Avatar
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
I have yet to see any real mention of the ability [Army of the Dead], I admit the cool down (if not talented) is quite large, although I have seen a significant increase in overall DPS when this ability has been used. The ability itself is quite problematic if used on an encounter which includes vasts amounts of AE or encounters such as Freya in where you can not attack the NPC until P2. However, if used at the start of the fight it can contribute to overall damage dealt. Encounters such as Ignis saw the best use of this ability.

I do apologise if I have overlooked this from a previous post.

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Old 06/20/09, 6:55 AM   #5503
selwonk
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
Cho'gall
Thank you for the great FAQ, but you are using 'your' in place of 'you're' in a lot of instances. Be mindful of your homophones.

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Old 06/20/09, 7:31 AM   #5504
Slideclub
Banned
 
Undead Rogue
 
Kael'thas (EU)
Is the bonus 4t8 better with 51/7/13 or spe combat ?
i know that combat is better than 51/13/7
thanks

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Old 06/20/09, 7:42 AM   #5505
Wyrmbergg
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Cheers Sylgian, has anyone been getting any errors with Fubar? everytime I move my cursor over it I get an error message. I have the latest version but not sure why I get this error.

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