Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 380

Jagiya · 06/26/09, 8:28 AM

Sorry, to be politically correct:
"I haven't found any Plate images yet." :P

Shayo · 06/26/09, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by nenad

You can use even now with simulation your own gear from Armory, instead of supplied BiS. In fact, for anyone that want to check best options for themselves, that is best choice. For example, this is enough to run simulation for your own character:

opt_raid.simcraft
armory=Region,Server,Player

where region=eu,us... and server is your realm name. It will use "default" actions based on your spec, but you can specify your own actions by just adding them after, or you can change glyphs or talents by adding new value after 'armory', but keeping your gear ... so for example:

opt_raid.simcraft
armory=Region,Server,Player
glyphs=conflagrate/incinerate/life_tap
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap

I can't check this until I get home, but I have a quick question. Does simulationcraft make a guess based on your spec? If I logged out in my pvp spec, but have a pve spec I could use instead, does it choose the PVE spec or is there an option to select which spec you're using? for example,
spec=primary,affliction or something like that?

Edit: Sorry, misunderstood. I just realized that this was primarily for gear and not talents

Inviktus · 06/26/09, 12:52 PM

Baddie!

Side note DPS tests on PTR: Sky isn't falling; Rogues slightly ahead (as it should be).

Travaggie · 06/26/09, 2:29 PM

I posted this in the DW Builds thread but that is supposedly only for mechanics discussions so I'll repost here:

So after alot of testing I've stumbled upon a slight variation of spec/glyph/sigil usage that has been much more effective than the current builds I've seen and tried out so far. I was able to put out 4.1 - 4.3k sustained DPS on the dummy through multiple 4 minute tests without popping ghoul or UA, although I do have 2/2 Merciless Combat (all my tests have it).

My rotation is the basic IT>PS>OB>BS>BS :: OB>OB>OB weaving FS's and rime procs when/if there is ever a spare GCD. In this rotation you and spec there's only 1 IT per 20 sec rotation so used the [Glyph of Blood Strike] instead and put 1 point in chillbains and the difference was quite noticeable. Also having equipped the [Sigil of Awareness] since it adds twice as much damage and I OB as much as I FS in this spec, I have dual crit OB's in the neighborhood of 10-11k, FS and BS's critting upwards of 7-8k dual crits.

Here's a screenshot:

Here's the spec I was using although it doesn't have Epidemic which leaves you a bit short on diseases but still comes out higher so I'll be playing around with a couple more variations with Epidemic to see how they test.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...&version=10026

Edit: I just tested the spec below with Epidemic and it seems to be virtually identical in damage when taking Necrosis into consideration, but I believe going into Unholy like this will end up scaling better with Necrosis and Ravenous dead. Deciding between finishing out Necrosis or picking up Merciless Combat seems like a wash to me, but I stuck with Merciless Combat simply because all my other tests had it included for this build.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...&version=10026

Daedalix · 06/26/09, 2:49 PM

@ Travaggie - What weapons were you using? How does this compare to your results when you use a 2H and a similar spec?

You definitely need to try this w/o Merciless Combat because that's +12% increased damage to Obliterate (an already high-scaling ability) that is heavy in your rotation. FS, HB, IT, and OB are ~53% of your damage, so Merciless Combat alone accounts for atleast 300 dps.

This information is good to see but not worth a whole lot when there are confounding variables. Hopefully others won't be testing with Merciless Combat.

Eosrain · 06/26/09, 3:47 PM

So I've been having a think about what may be more effective as a talent build with the massive changes. After lurking through about 15 pages of this thread, I noticed some comments and concerns that have been similar to my own. For instance, the fact that we now have to build up a stackable debuff on a target for maximum DPS output from SoV, the concern that said debuff could be dispelled could perhaps impede our progress made on the mob. Especially since some have voiced a concern that our single target DPS has suffered. Getting our SoV stack dispelled would cause our single target DPS to suffer even more IMO.

I'll admit, I'm not as handy with the math as most of you, and this is my first post, but I've lurked around these forums for a very long time.

I've been questioning the viability of Stoicism as a talent. The extra chance to have our DoT's and such not be dispelled may not be a readily visible DPS increase, however it adds the likelihood that our DPS will be far steadier. Honestly I think at this point, we need to prioritize towards steady single target DPS, with a decent capability towards AE DPS as well.

Another part of keeping steady DPS is keeping an eye on our mana pool, and I think Glyph of CruStrike will accomplish that relatively well. With the changes to JoL, I'd honestly rather have JoW anyway, not just for myself, but also to keep the caster DPS full on mana and happy. JoW increases not only my efficiency, but the efficiency of some other classes as well.

As far as DiSac, I honestly dislike the idea of a melee class being the raid saver. I think it's rather illogical for the other raid members to be dependent on a melee DPS class to bring a severely OP raid cooldown. As Ret, I don't think that's what our job is. I appreciate that Paladins are a hybrid class and that we bring off-healing and other raid utility, however I don't think that DiSac is the right way to go. It removes a lot of the difficulty for healers, and I dislike that because I've seen a lot of healers that just SUCK, blaming ME because I didn't use DiSac, and I think being put in that position is just ridiculous, and is not the right direction for Ret DPS to go. I've always liked Divine Guardian because it provides that perfect balance of allowing me to help out raid members without being relied on to save the entire raid. You never see other melee DPS classes expected to do that, and I think that it's ridiculous to allow ULTIMATE RAID SALVATION to be expected of us.

With all of that said, here's the talent build that I worked out... I like the glyphs and I also like that it provides utility for myself, while allowing for a decent degree of raid utility.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10026

Rmiskid4 · 06/26/09, 4:06 PM

I have been fortunate and just received my second Betrayer of Humanity, so I can now dual-wield them. Only a day later I received Ironsoul from Ulduar. Every place I look says that Ironsoul is better for DPS than Betrayer. My question is what do you think will be the best combo of these 3 to maximize dps? And what enchants would be best.....is it best to put berserker on both weapons?

Betrayer (Berserker Enchant)
Betrayer (Massacre Enchant)
Ironsoul (Un-chanted as of now)

By the way, I'm starved for expertise right now, so the mace will give me an extra 3 pts there.

Thanks

zanxil · 06/26/09, 4:19 PM

Thank you ^.^

PantheraOnca · 06/26/09, 4:34 PM

Your best bet would be to download the spreadsheet from the dps spreadsheet thread and see what happens with each weapon combination.

Sprout · 06/26/09, 4:44 PM

The wiki shows the ToW glyph better than LvB until 4k SP. Is this correct?

Maraxus · 06/26/09, 5:59 PM

Originally Posted by Xentik

Here's there results for Frost spec set up for DC vs Frost Spec set up for Frost Strike.

First, here are the specs I used.

I assumed for the purposes of this test that filling up Impurity would be better than getting GoG and that the weapons were again 178.8 dps weapons. Equations used were the same, with the appropriate talents multipliers dropped/added.

Here's the DPRP graph.

As can be seen, this predicts Frost Strike should be competitive up to 8k AP if you have crit rates above 25%. Higher(lower) levels of AP will require marginally higher(lower) crit rates.

Really nice!!,

Would it be to much asking if you could repeat your calculations based on the two specs I posted when I quoted Syrellia a few posts earlier?

Your calculations make mine look.... well.... I will not say it myself :-P

Maraxus · 06/26/09, 6:07 PM

Originally Posted by Xentik

Let me know if there are any errors in my calculations, also if anyone is interested in the mathematica notebook with the calculations, let me know and I'll post it online.

edit: Fixed equation error, added Glyph of Dark Death as well. Scaling looks really bad for FS against a full unholy build. Going to check out a hybrid frost/unholy build to see if FS is actually competitive for frost.

Im tired and my brain is not able to catch any mistake (I hope its because Im tired :-P).

Only thing I see is that you factored Merciless Combat as it was up 100% of the time.

donmc · 06/26/09, 7:27 PM

Just occured to me that SoV will significantly lower ret's dmg during short fights (trash). How nice would it be if SoV worked like this

Fills the paladin with holy energy causing melee attacks to apply blood corruption which causes additional holy damage over 15 seconds. Each of the paladin's attacks deals extra weapon damage as additional holy damage. This damage increases per stack up to 33% extra weapon damage. Stacks up to 5 times.

Would accomplish the same without gutting ret's dps on trash.

Naaribula · 06/26/09, 7:31 PM

Very glad you posted Telumehtar, lets hope it doesn't get lost in all the trolling.

meepers · 06/26/09, 9:26 PM

Ok, I've read some of the posts that seem to pertain to this. However I don't quite understand the 0/55/16 build tree. I know what the trees are, "Bal, Feral, Resto". But as far as to where to allocate the points with in the respective trees for Feral and Resto is what has got me baffled. I've looked and looked and knowing my luck it's probably starring me right in the face and I'm just not seeing it. If anyone has any help or info this would be great.

Meeps