Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 442

Eilt · 07/29/09, 4:34 PM

Try this thread Playchaser:

Moonkin - Beginner Guide

07/29/09, 4:37 PM

Did anyone check out this suggestion here?

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Scrap Seal of Vengeance, do this instead.

Step 1) Remove Seal of Vengeance

Step 2) Increase threat generated on Seal of Righteousness for Prot so their threat isn't harmed during the process

Step 3) Seal of Command becomes the main damage seal for Ret as it is now (bear with me)

Step 4) Reduce the cooldown of Crusader Strike to 3 seconds. (Damage and mana cost appropriately)

Step 5) Crusader Strike now stacks a debuff 3 times, this debuff will do 2 things, it will create a DoT equal to what Seal of Vengeances did at 5 stacks and will increases Judgement damage by 16/32/50%

Crusader Strike being a 3-second cooldown and stacking 3 times is equal to 9 seconds of "ramp-up" before damage is maximized, it also doesn't punish the spec nearly as much for switching as the DoT and the Judgement damage increase are only missing, NOT the weapon damage every swing

What does this solve

Clear Seal niches for every spec.
Seal of Command actually being used for PvE and PvP
Gives Crusader Strike it's own Niche and debuff, i.e. not a boring piece of trash
Creates "counterable" damage for Ret in the ways of denying the debuff being stacked in PvP to produce more Judgement damage

Crusader Strike would look like this

Crusader Strike
4% of base mana Melee Range
Instant cast 3 sec cooldown
Requires Melee Weapon
An instant strike that causes 55% weapon damage, dealing (1/3'rd of Seal of Vengeances DoT damage) damage over time and increasing Judgement damage taken by 16%. This effect stacks up to 3 times.

After talents the 55% weapon damage would look closer to 70%.

I thought this was a rather decent suggestion, I think the numbers on command would have to be lowered to a tiny bit to what Vengeance's weapon damage is at 5 stacks and what it's judgement is before the 50% increase, but I think this solution fits the problem without making us take 'forever' to ramp up damage

Severian56 · 07/29/09, 4:48 PM

Originally Posted by Cinderglow

Hunter stats and scaling

You're not going to want to gear for haste, but having IAotH and the glyph to get your steady shot to 1.5 is always a DPS increase.

Thanks for the reply. I've perused the information you linked previously, but the refresher was appreciated.

Maybe I'm just thick, but it seems that a normal proc of IAotH (w/o glyph) would cap me haste-wise (at least to the point of hasting Steadies to 1.5) rendering the additional haste of the glyph pretty much useless.

Quite possible I'm missing something here, but at least this is how it appears to me, making me feel like the glyph of the Hawk is a waste.

What's even more confusing is the spreadsheet (to which I'm new, and still sorting out) shows a ~70dps increase when using Glyph of the Hawk. Maybe the dps increase is from the buff to autoshot, that's the only thing I can surmise thusfar.

femot · 07/29/09, 6:02 PM

Originally Posted by nse360

Blindly following FBN will probably result in less DPS than paying attention to what's going on. Think of it like a cookbook - it's got the basic recipe, but tweak it to your own tastes and it'll turn out better.

That being said, Shred is often higher DPE than Rake depending on procs (as stated in this thread several times) so refreshing Rake instead of Shredding may be a DPS loss.

Using SR at 4-5 CPs is a waste of CPs. You should be refreshing at 2 CP for your gear level (3 if you get a non-crit followed by a crit, obviously).

There are several other flaws in your rotation, but if it's a net DPS gain for you stick with what works.

yeah i tried a bit to watch at FBN and my timers the same time, but when i do that it get's more complex for me. i guess i'll use FBN in fights where i have to watch out for other things than my timers (sometimes i don't even see my own healthbar when concentrating on dps).

i haven't read the thing about shred/rake DPE yet (45 pages are a bit much), but i'll search the information and try it.

you said i should use 2-3 CP SR.. well this is what i used to do, but when testing with 4-5CP on the dummy i could FB more often and found myself doing more dps but i'll recheck this!

yeah i my priority list isn't the best and it's hard to write down exactly how i react in every situations as there are so many conditions. but i guess it's really hard to USE (and find) the perfect rotation for your gear but as long as i can push the full ulduar equipped rogue on #2 i'm fine

ps: as most of my damage comes from rip and i do more damage with rip idol.. should i regem agi?

Gotz · 07/29/09, 8:56 PM

Originally Posted by Brekkie

The problem with the way GC is trying to portray our 15-second ramp up as comparable to other classes is that all the classes with any sort of "ramp up" have control OVER that ramp up.

In his example of the feral with 4 combo points on Hodir, his DPS actually does NOT suffer from switching off, because a competant player would be able to consume those 4 combo points before switching. Combo point classes are not forced by any mechanic to reach 5-combo points to use their abilities. Nor are DoT based classes forced to apply ALL their DoTs to one target before they switch to a new one. A Shadow Priest on Yog Saron can throw a couple of his Dots on a corruptor while running by before switching onto a Crusher andd those DoTs do not do massively reduced damage because not all of them are up on that target. A skilled feral can do things like throw up a 2-combo point rip on Mimiron before they run out from Shock Blast to maximize thier DPS.

The way SoV currently works FORCES reliance on a 5-stack of the Dot. The difference between a 4-stack and a 5-stack is massive, beyond simply the one extra DoT's damage, because the seal procs only occur when a 5-stack is up. Not to mention the fact that Judgement damage is directly tied to the number of DoTs too, making opening with judge weak.

Ramp up on a target-rich environment, on enemies which die quickly or which you have to switch off of, would not be nearly as crippling if 33% weapon damage procs weren't reliant on there being a 5-stack up. Our damage with these changes doesn't even ramp... it's Binary. We either have a 5-stack and do ok DPS, or we have a 4-or-less stack and do terrible DPS.

Make the weapon damage procs occur always, but make it's damage scale based on the number of DoTs on the target.

-The fact that we can't scale our damage out all like all classes with similar ramp up can is a problem. Give us options when we dont have a 5-stack up or can't get one up in time. Ret DPS is no less mindless whack-a-mole than it was before precisely because we didn't get any control over our damage whatsoever.

-Don't underestimate the hit that the JoL change represents for ret in a competative raiding environment. Only a substantial DPS increase for the spec it's self, not just some kind of baseline booster jumpstart for "people who dont have good weapons" will compensate for that. Right now there's no justification for bringing more than one ret. If we go live without the "substantial DPS increase" we were promised, there will be no justification for bringing a ret at all for almost every hard mode in ulduar and everything we've seen in collosseum. We've lost even the "we are good when there are approximately 4 targets to be fought at once" mini-niche we shared with warriors.

What if SoV dot application was based on the number of Vengeance(buff) stacks you had?

1 stack of vengeance = 1 application
2 stack of vengeance = 2 applications
3 stack of vengeance = 3 applications

you get your ramp up in a fight without being at a huge disadvantage when switching to another target.

or a full stack of Vengeance(buff) could apply an additional SoV dot per hit.

RevokeRepent · 07/29/09, 9:38 PM

The thing that's been bugging me is that we're being shoved into a half broken "combo point" system mechanic except without finishing moves.

That's the thing that sticks out. GC's repeated use of the word "finishing moves" when comparing ret in situations to other classes.

Rogues and Feral druids use those points as they want in order to do things like start bleeds, trigger self buffs etc...Ret has to get the equivalent of 5 points on a target and then stay there.

We use finishing moves?

Everyone of my buttons still just does damage on demand, it's just now if I don't have 5 points that on demand damage sucks...

Rufio · 07/29/09, 9:50 PM

if your healer know how to dispel it's no problem to move the boss to keep you and your melees buffed all the time and max tps/dps

dachopper · 07/29/09, 11:32 PM

Doh! Yeah, that was it. Thanks.

jeepster · 07/29/09, 11:32 PM

Hey guys long time reader first time poster.

Just wondering with the gear and spec I have atm would it be better for my DPS to stack ArP or keep stacking Agi? I've tried both setups in shandra's spreadsheet but i can't really get a straight answer because I don't feel like im doing as much DPS as I am capable of. Would It be because my gear isn't good enough for marks yet? looking forward to your input. thanks guys

here is my armoury link ifyou need it

The World of Warcraft Armory

Pie-oh-pah · 07/30/09, 12:37 AM

This is my first post and i do have to say that EJ(druid forums) has been my go to for every question i have had about bein a kitty for the past couple of months. i do however have a question about armpen. with my current gear i do not have a armpen trinket. grim toll doesnt like me and mjolnir has yet to drop for our uld10 group. so my question is with there being a softcap for armpen. should i continue to stack armpen past the softcap if i dont have a armpen proc. trinket? i still pull top dps and have gone with the thought that moar armpen w/o a trinket is better than softcapping it and then stackin agi.

The World of Warcraft Armory <--- seriously no armpen proc trink.

RareBeast · 07/30/09, 1:50 AM

Definitely. ArPen will be worth more point for point than Agi until you are capped. The cap will either come at the hard cap without one of the trinkets or at the soft cap if you have a trinket.

bobn9lvu · 07/30/09, 2:38 AM

What do you think of this build;Locutus
with a wolf for pet?
I will be putting in mend pet in place of pack for glyph.

Using Rawr I get just over 3200dps with just hawk.

Jaryd · 07/30/09, 3:45 AM

i find a default in your muti spreadsheet
Runed Ironhide Boots has not 81 agi it's 77 agi

yours faithfully Jaryd

mentealia · 07/30/09, 3:49 AM

Has anyone put together a Mr. T starter kit for a BM hunter getting into raiding? I have a lvl 75 hunter that should be 80 next week and want to get him "raid" ready ASAP. In some of the other class forums someone has gotten a list of raid starter gear listed but for NO hunter specs can I find one. I plan to start raiding as BM, how I am lvling, and might just stay there unless the guild BEGS me to switch.

WildWill · 07/30/09, 7:29 AM

Dear all, this is my first thread so if i do something wrong then please tell me so.

Been playing as a undead priest, leveled him to 70 as a disc spec and now converted to shadow for leveling in northrend as it seems to be alot quicker. Have basic addons for healing, such as Healbot, descursive and Healassign which all work fine.

Now i have converted to shadow, i am looking for any helpful addons. Seeing as i have always healed in instances/raids, i am not very familar with targetting mobs or monitoring DOT spells.

I have had a read and got the basic one, such as Omen. Is there any other essential ones i should get for SP DPS?

I have also read that you use different UI from the blizzard set up. Are there pro's for doing this or am i just being a lil dated by using blizzards standard one?

Any help would be great