Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 503

KraxisSingular · 08/31/09, 1:42 PM

Hm... I guess I just have to learn more keybindings.

Thanks, those addons might help me. Heh... another addon to help with too much stuff caused by too many addons. The irony of my WoW experience.

roninger · 08/31/09, 1:56 PM

The World of Warcraft Armory

haste good?

Kronys · 08/31/09, 2:52 PM

excellent, thanks wurmfood, i'll try that out tonight.

devilishsoul · 08/31/09, 3:00 PM

im a blood DK and im just wondering is Edge of Ruin would be better than Betrayer of Humanity now?

Ecliptic · 08/31/09, 3:26 PM

Ok ive read through alot of these posts and I have been afk from the game a good 2-3 months for work, i come back and see that finally dual wield frost is awesome and OMG thank god, i love frost and have so since day 1. Now i'm coming from a rogue and cant seem to get out of the habbit of maxing hit so my white hits dont miss, so as of now i think i have to much hit and needed some opinions.

* Damage: 963 - 1244
* Speed: 2.53
* Power3438
* Hit Rating: 495
* Crit Chance: 25.40%
* Expertise: 27

My Arp is almost non existent so I was thinking of swapping alot of hit out for ArP. Any thoughts?

Decaying · 08/31/09, 3:29 PM

Originally Posted by gogolack

Again with the false and unfair claim of "substantial AOE DPS Loss?" Can we try to discuss this within the realms of realism? SNIP

You know, I was going to argue with you some more, however I wanted to find out some more about your background. Unfortunately, your armory link is invalid and I can see that you've transferred at least 3 times in the past month and a half, and you're relatively new to EJ (at least under this username), and your previous posts indicate you didn't even have a clear understanding of how blood-gorged's armor penetration worked. I did a little google searching and found this gem:

Posting as Elseagoat on MMO-Champion

You're going to lecture other people on DK mechanics without baseline knowledge of how talents work, limited end-game raiding experience and without the hands-on experience of having decent gear and actually playtesting what you're mindlessly parroting from unlinked sources. I appreciate your fervor, but I can't take anything you say seriously. But please stop coming to this board and stating your perceptions as fact - it's misleading to people who are actually coming to these boards to learn to play their class/spec.

With that said - lets change gears. One thing I haven't seen much on is maximizing Raise Dead usage in a raid environment (another lesser thought of cooldown that doesn't scale with armor pen at all). While it's not a huge chunk of DPS - it adds up. From my experience, timing it just prior to Haste Pot/BL is ideal. Also, try to fit it in a GCD that wouldn't otherwise be taken up by another ability. Additionally, be careful on what you're targetting in a multi-target fight - it's not very intelligent. For instance, if you summon it during Vezax HM right as the Animus is coming out (to time it with BL, etc), it will go after bubbled Vezax for its duration - make sure you have the animus targetted, and make sure you attack the animus yourself asap so it will follow your target. The same advice can be applied to AOTD for Vezax HM - if you do it incorrectly and AOTD goes after Vezax during animus phase you just wasted it.

Does anyone have any experience on whether or not Risen Ghoul handles buffs/stats the same way that perma-ghoul does?

Grimpek · 08/31/09, 3:53 PM

I have been slamming my head against this simulation craft stuff i gotta give you guys props this looks like a lot of work, but i was wondering on a few things.
1.If Deep Destro is still the best output dps spec with the latest patch 3.2
2. IF so is loosing the four piece 8.5 worth it because i just dont see how 10% crit added to imp is worth loosing 5% crit off you inc and or SB
3. And as a destro lock my guild doesnt run with a demo lock and i think they are a huge raid utility but switching to demo drops my dps at least 1000 and im wondering if its worth it, i mean is the difference between the 280 totem and DP with my peaking Spellpower worth it?

Duress · 08/31/09, 4:02 PM

From my fledgling blog:

HORDE ELE SHAMAN 3.2 BIS LIST

Suffering's End
Bastion of Resolve
Totem of Electrifying Wind
Thrall's Helm of Triumph
Wail of the Val'kyr
Thrall's Shoulderpads of Triumph
Aethas' Intensity
Thrall's Hauberk of Triumph
Bejeweled Wizard's Bracers
Thrall's Gloves of Triumph
Cord of Biting Cold
Leggings of the Awakening
Sabatons of Tremoring Earth
Firestorm Band
Circle of the Darkmender (MP5 =\)
Flare of the Heavens
Reign of the Dead

More info on this list at my blog.
More info on replicating my results at Rawr: Elemental Shaman model page.
I found that 885 haste unbuffed was a sweet spot for this gearset.

In my notes pertinent to this discussion:

Legs was best tier slot from which to cut hit.
Waist and finger were best slots to add hit.
Neck and back were best slots for non-hit.

Clamtrot · 08/31/09, 4:17 PM

Very vague question, but what would be more viable for a combat spec: [Shard of the Crystal Heart] or [Mark of Supremacy]. I remember in Pre BC when [Dragonspine Trophy] was BiS purely because of the haste bonus, but now it seems that Arpen is the most sought after stat for combat.

Would it be worth it to spend the 50 triumphs for the shard, or would I be better off spending it on something else?

Saltyone · 08/31/09, 4:22 PM

I’m wondering why passive ArPen shows a benefit past 76% (936 ArPen) while there is 24% worth of Armor Penetration debuffs (Sunder 5/5 and FF) on the target in the buffs selection. Since total Armor Penetration is capped at 100%, shouldn’t gains stop at 936 ArP with those debuffs?

Ena.the.rogue · 08/31/09, 4:25 PM

All of the following is related to Armor Penetration.

I've read a lot about how Armor Pen gets better as you get more of it, to the point that you will eventually want to stop using Rupture and only use Eviscerate.

I was hoping to learn what that point is, if there's a semi-fixed armor pen value or if it depends on individual gear sets and thus can only be determined by using a spread sheet? Similarly, is there a point where your passive armor pen pushes the ep value of armor pen high enough that you should gem for armor pen to the exclusion of other stats?

It seems highly unlikely that you would be able to reach a high enough value for this without one of the armor pen trinkets. Does this mean that you should watch for the trinket proc and hit Eviscerate when it's up and hit Rupture otherwise?

There seems to be a number of factors that would affect which finisher would be better, in addition to armor pen. These include: talents, glyphs, crit chance, set bonuses, bleed debuffs, etc. If you had all the ones that favor eviscerate, by how much would that lower the needed armor pen value to make eviscerate the better choice. Conversely, if you knew you'd always have Mangle, and were using one of the rupture set bonuses, could Evis ever catch up?

Does the mace spec talent act just like armor pen or is it added in at a different time?

There don't seem to be many (if any) offhand maces that are very competitive. How many more ilevel or stat points would you need on your sword/fist/dagger over your oh mace to make the non mace the better choice?

As the value of armor pen rises, does Executioner ever become a viable or preferred weapon enchant?

When you are at the armor pen cap, how much armor does the target still have that isn't ignored?

Dulethin · 08/31/09, 4:27 PM

Greetings,

Is there an updated version of the Combat and Mutilate Spreadsheets out there that includes some of the older items (Ex: Favor of the Dragon Queen.) Also, is there any way to add these items manually to Aldriana's speadsheet? Thanks again for all the hard work and effort placed into these spreadsheets!!!

My aplogiies if this question has been asked before.

Thank You

Cyrix
NE Rogue: Magtheridon

Ena.the.rogue · 08/31/09, 4:30 PM

Originally Posted by Flaxiz

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...spanel_034.jpg definately confirms that agi will give 2attack power- wether agi will still give crit, they didn't touch upon.

When I look at that image and think about the implications of the second statement, my guess is there will simply be less agility on gear itemized for rogues et al, with the intent of making the non plate gear very unappealing to plate wearers.

Of course, if that were true, they'd have to compensate by increasing the amount of crit we get from agility.

Kajall · 08/31/09, 4:40 PM

Originally Posted by thedudeabides

Some quick questions, which i think should be answered in the first post:

Recent 80, I picked up FFB as my spec (lower mana cost, better hit, and good AOE for faster badge farming). As i gear up for serious endgame dps:

1) is my first priority to get 14% hit capped (i.e. gem/enchant everything hit) or is there a softcap i should reach and then gem sp?
2) when comparing items of the same ilvl, do i choose or avoid the ones with spirit? (i run with molten armor always, but it's not glyphed)
3) Glyphs: obviously FFB and Living Bomb glyph, without having a dedicated scorcher, do i glyph scorch or do i get more by molten armor glyph and just build/maintain scorch debuff?
4) for activating the meta gem, do i use 2 purple sp/spirit or sp/spell penetration?
5) does spell penetration even work and do i need a certain amount of it?
5) how do i choose between haste and crit? (i.e. are there approximate softcaps for these)
6) at what point gearwise will i see better boss dps by switching to FB-ttw or arcane?
7) is it reasonable to say that all mp5 items are worse dps-wise than equivalent non-mp5 items?
8) in AOE situations, assuming the mobs will survive over 12 sec, how many mobs should i LB on before flamestrike and blizzard? i usually do 2-3 with LB.
9) do i want to pop trinkets and mana gems (2p t7) before or after mirror image?

1) Hit cap first. There is no "soft cap" for hit. Then again, the 17% hit cap is ONLY for lvl 83 bosses. In heroics the hit cap is much lower (since the bosses are lvl 82).
2) Avoid spirit, Crit/Haste/SP are always MUCH better. Then again, Spirit is generally unavoidable on many otherwise excellent items (such as many tier or crafted items). Spellslinger Slippers are a great example, they kick ass for a pre-Ulduar mage.
3) Of the 3 dps glyphs, Molten Armor is by far the worst for a pre-Ulduar geared mage. As you get into Ulduar gear and your Spirit gets to be ~550+ then MA glyph becomes better than Fireball/FFB glyph. It is a judgement call as to whether to go Scorch or MA/FFB glyph. If you're running heroics, 10 mans or 25 mans as the only mage, then scorch glyph can make sense. I often carry a few Scorch and MA glyphs in my bags and switch depending on raid comp. It's easy enough to switch out and the glyphs are cheap.
4) Sp/Spirit or SP/Stamina. Spell penetration is useless for PVE, don't gem for it... ever. Stamina offers no dps, but survivability for an undergeared mage can be an issue. Spirit is the only Blue gem DPS option.
5) See above
6) You need to consult RAWR, but for FFB spec at pre-ulduar gear levels.... Crit ~= Haste. As you scale, Haste tends to be slightly higher valued, but if you're just looking for a rule of thumb, think of haste as slightly better than Crit. There are no real "soft caps" although past 50% crit does have a bit of DR (hence Haste scales better) but at current realistic gear levels, you don't have to worry about this.
7) FB/TTW and Arcane are better boss DPS, period. Especially with the arcane buffs coming in 3.2.2. Having said that, FFB is certainly competitive and not TOO far behind in DPS. Not to mention that FFB has better AOE, much better mana efficiency, better burst than Fire/TTW due to Icy Veins...... and so on. So for an early raiding build where you're not terribly secure in your mana support from your raid it's an excellent option.
8) Don't even consider MP5 on items, it has almost 0 Dps value for any mage spec. Well, it has a very small value for Arcane, but 0 value for FFB. The only time you should consider an item with Mp5 on it is if it's many ilvls above your current item (an ilvl 226 item with Mp5 replacing an ilvl 200 item for example)
9) If you're sure the mobs will survive more than 12 seconds, then LB them all. Once they're all LB'd, then Flamestrike and Blizzard. Once you're not sure they're gonna last 12 seconds, just put up Flamestrike for the dot and then Blizzard them to death.
10) Mirror Image initiates a GCD. So, if you want to pop all your CDs and Mirror image at the same time, use all your CDs first and then Mirror image last. I use a macro along the lines of....
# show Icy Veins
/stopcasting
/use icy veins
/stopcasting
/use Mana Sapphire (Or whatever the hell the top lvl gem is called)
/stopcasting
/use Potion of Wild Magic
/stopcasting
/use combustion (if you specced into it)
/stopcasting
/use 13
/stopcasting
/use 14
/stopcasting
/use mirror image

The /use 13 and /use 14 use your trinket slots if they're on use trinkets. Also, you can remove or leave in the Pot as you see fit. Potion of Wild Magic is slightly better for FFB spec, Potion of Speed is best for Fire/TTW and Arcane.

While Fire/TTW basically has no CDs, CD stacking for FFB is PARAMOUNT for competitive dps. Using a macro like the above helps with doing so.

I think that answers all your questions. When in doubt, use RAWR. It's great for seeing relative stat values, what is an upgrade, the best way to cap hit etc. It really is a powerful tooll.

gogolack · 08/31/09, 4:47 PM

I've actually killed Algalon 25 and am in very high end gear. But proceed with personal attacks over discussing the subject. Thats a lot of time spent investigating that could've been spent on a relevant refute.

My questions on Blood Gorged were very valid considering the affect of Sunder Armor. I make an effort to research a good bit about my class and I truly could not find anything in a quick search here about whether Blood Gorged works on top of Sunder or towards your ArP rating. Please don't attempt to use that as a personal shot against me, that just gives the impression that you're fishing for reasons to dodge the subject. Debate or don't debate but don't blow up with personal crap - save that for mmo.

With that said - Sorry for derailing the thread but that was a rather unfair mess of personal attacks with no real justification.