I’m wondering why passive ArPen shows a benefit past 76% (936 ArPen) while there is 24% worth of Armor Penetration debuffs (Sunder 5/5 and FF) on the target in the buffs selection. Since total Armor Penetration is capped at 100%, shouldn’t gains stop at 936 ArP with those debuffs?
ArP only works on the current amount of armour a mob has, it doesn't 'stack' with sunders/faerie fire in that sense.
Debuffs reduce the amount of armour a mob has.
ArP reduces the amount of armour 'seen' by your damaging abilities.
I've actually killed Algalon 25 and am in very high end gear. But proceed with personal attacks over discussing the subject. Thats a lot of time spent investigating that could've been spent on a relevant refute.
My questions on Blood Gorged were very valid considering the affect of Sunder Armor. I make an effort to research a good bit about my class and I truly could not find anything in a quick search here about whether Blood Gorged works on top of Sunder or towards your ArP rating. Please don't attempt to use that as a personal shot against me, that just gives the impression that you're fishing for reasons to dodge the subject. Debate or don't debate but don't blow up with personal crap - save that for mmo.
With that said - Sorry for derailing the thread but that was a rather unfair mess of personal attacks with no real justification.
I don't see a personal attack anywhere - just questioning your credentials. You can check mine because my armory link works and I have dozens of parses available on WMO. I was able to track down your armory and do see that you have killed Algalon 25. With that said, you joined a guild that already had him on farm and got a large portion of your Ulduar 25 HM achievements on farm kills. I still can't find any data for you on WMO in your current guild, and you haven't provided any links to back up your arguments. Furthermore - I see from your MMO Champion threads where you curse people out for not agreeing with you and are generally argumentative and combative.
The bottom line is that armor pen is easy to softcap without gemming for it with some intelligent gear selection and you don't nerf your versatility and cooldowns like AOTD, DRW and Raise Dead while gemming for it. You may find a small increase on some fights by doing so, and a small decrease on some fights on the flip side. Personally, since it comes out to a wash for the most part - I don't think it's worth wasting gems and sacrificing offspec versatility for. So back to my original point - which is treat it the same way you treat hit/expertise. Don't bother gemming for it, but try to get as close to softcap/hardcap (just like hit/expertise) through intelligent gear selection, and you'll see the most overall benefit. If you disagree - that's fine. But again, please provide some links or information that show this. Meanwhile - you can look on WMO for me - I show up frequently there for top 20 blood DK's both post 3.2 and pre 3.2. You'll also find that most people showing up there don't gem for armor pen either.
I'm sure you may do higher DPS than me, but I'm sure you also have better gear. Regardless, I've done nothing for you to call into question. My credentials are fine. I don't get carried, I do fine.
Also, Alg was not on farm. It had been downed one single time at the tail end of a wipe with 2-3 people alive the week before. The night I was there on my very first Alg attempt ever I nearly topped their meters to a first shot kill. Hardly much coattail riding.
Though, it is fun being able to claim you killed Alg 25 before ever dying against him.
My MMO history is totally irrelevant here. That ia a dummy forum with nothing to offer along the lines of insightful discussion. I'm not trolling or attacking anybody here. You've done the only insulting.
And OBVIOUSLY, if you have the gear available to accomplish the caps, it is the better way to go. This should go without saying, because if your gear doesn't have ArP on it, it can only have a less valuable stat. The point is if you CAN'T reach your 440/500 Mjolnir/Grim Tol caps through gear alone, it is beneficial to gem for it to reach those caps. Intelligent gear selection doesn't make BiS loot show up in your mailbox. You work with what you got.
But seriously, lets quit the bickering. Lets settle in the middle and say you're not going wrong either gemming Strength or gemming ArP up to soft/hardcaps.
Ok ive read through alot of these posts and I have been afk from the game a good 2-3 months for work, i come back and see that finally dual wield frost is awesome and OMG thank god, i love frost and have so since day 1. Now i'm coming from a rogue and cant seem to get out of the habbit of maxing hit so my white hits dont miss, so as of now i think i have to much hit and needed some opinions.
My Arp is almost non existent so I was thinking of swapping alot of hit out for ArP. Any thoughts?
The Rogue's main source of damage is Auto Attacks, the "Frost Knights" main source of damage is Obliterate, followed by Frost Strikes and Auto Attacks sit at around 20-30% depending on your gear and Talents.
As such stats that only increase Auto Attack damage are of much less value to a Frost Knight. Concerning your hit rating, it is debatable whether it's worth it to reach the spell hit cap (11% for horde, 10% for alliance), it is not debatable that hit rating past the spell hit cap is in fact pretty much worthless.
[...]it is not debatable that hit rating past the spell hit cap is in fact pretty much worthless.
Calling hit rating after the spell hit cap "pretty much worthless" is not accurate at all. It was common knowledge in the old unholy DW thread that hit after the 11% cap was still worth More than AP, It was in the range of 115 or 121 APE value depending on build. Certainly not something to gear for, but a far cry from worthless. This range puts hit only slightly behind other stats, and is a huge benefit to running a DW build. The ability to still gain some dps from going over cap is very nice compared to getting no benefit whatsoever from a two handed build.
I'm pretty sure Afubar is working on a way to include post spellhit cap hit rating on the statweight part of his simulator, so I'm sure we will get some exact values soon. Until then, lets hold off on making such strong statements with no math to back them up.
Any advice is appreciated:
Just wondering if I'm going in the right direction here:
hit rating is 260,
expertise is 22 (before +4 with Strength of Arms)
ArP is 40.92% (before 10% from Battle stance)
I don't have either GT or MR yet because I have terrible luck with drops/rolls, so I'm rocking a Greatness card and MoT.
Should I keep stacking passive ArP and replace my Str gems with ArP, or stick with Str until I have GT or MR? Or should I even get rid of some hit rating/expertise gems for more ArP gems?
Also, what's the consensus on meta gems, +21 or +21 agi. If it's beneficial I will go with +agi and replace one of my str+stam gems with +20 ArP.
This is my current UI, and by the way, it looks like your forum got hacked by discussing rogue abilities. My UI
i find that EBB on the side helps, because you can still see your buffs, but the DHUD in the center shows the most important buffs. Prat, chinchilla, Dominos, Omen, and Recount take up the space at the bottom, and skinner provides the black background. Grid in the top right shows raid frames, and Pitbull shows the character, target, and target's target in an area where i can glance at easily if i need to for some reason. Classtimer, below Pitbull, shows how much time Rupture and DP have left. I like it, and i hope this offers some guidance for a good, simple UI.