I've been recently using the spreadsheet to test gear and gems/glyphs (I'm new to it). I've also recently made the switch to MM from survival. I've run into a problem when switching to Armor Pen. Should I be changing my gems to Armor Pen? I see the spread sheet rating agility higher and regemming armor pen was a loss in dps but I see the other hunters in raids gemming armor pen and beating me in dps. I recently respecced Is it just where my gear is at right now? Does the spread sheet take into account kill command anywhere? I didn't see the option. I have been using the online version, not sure if it makes a difference. I appreciate the help.

Hi all,

Long time reader, guess you call me a troll since I never posted before, but here's my biggest issue. I raid Destro/Demo, as the raid needs. Looking at the upcoming changes, think I'm finally gonna make the switch to full time Demo, since it really is more "fun". But I look at the build and they have 2 pts in MC. Wouldn't the extra pt for longer uptime, as well as more dmg during decimate be well worth it?

My big problem in that, is where to safely remove a pt to acheive it? I've not found where to sacrifice it, but would love the extra pDPS if at all possible, so I put this out there for the other theorycrafters, can anyone find a way to safely get 3 pts in MC w/o gimping rDPS?

EDIT*********
Nevermind all my jabber figured out the spec Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. Now I ask, with spirit declining in the t10 pieces, should demo maybe steer away from LT glyph? If so, I was thinking Felguard, Meta, and Quick Decay, would be my choice for glyphs.

Any Thoughts on this?

Don't forget that the armor bonus from imp devotion aura is still useful for hard hitting bosses.

Hello, my hunter just hit 80, and im looking for a good Surv spec and a good MM spec.
Im currently using raid gear for pvp (been using honour for gems)
Please reply soon

I got pretty good gear and all followed and read ur padge my dps on a dummy is only aout 3.9k and my gear score is 5555k i dont know if u put it in there but i have no rotation... i dont have T10 set bonus yet but im working towards it. atm i have the T9 set bonous and alot 264 piecece here and there my chars name is lilbopeep im confused on rotation i useually come about 2nd 3rd in raids doing about 5k single target and 7k aoe i open with PS IS BS BS SS DC thennnn im like huh what now i useually spam random stuff and pop pest to refresh dots.. should i be hitting pest or should i be re doing PS IS BS BS SS DC SS? need help over geard under dpsed DK needs help

Armor Pen gains more value as you get more of it. That's why there is the push towards ArP now, because it scales in top end gear better than agility does. So, the more you have, the higher value each point from there on will give you. Your armory shows 483 ArP, which is fairly low with current gear levels, so ArP would be valued slightly lower than agility at that point. As your passive Armor Pen goes up you will start to see Armor Pen values start creeping higher and higher.

Before someone nicely tries to kill you for basically not reading the threads herein, a quick solution to your problem and a nice way to get you a basic outline of what works and what doesn't is to load up wow-heroes.com and look up high end guilds on your server, or in this thread...

...and another solution... Please read the discussions. Alot of information is here and available "to those who read it". 8)

Thanks I just got really overwhelmed trying to read through the whole discussion thread.

I'm wondering if my eyes are deceiving me, or if anyone has noticed this as well, but on Blood Queen Lana'Thel, is the shadow portion of SS not benefiting from the Embrace of the Blood Queen buff?

1/25 WoL

I am the 2nd person to be bitten, and I happened to notice on my combat text normal damage from the shadow portion. I browsed over my recount after the attempt ended and saw that it was doing about normal damage as well. Now I realize WoL shows average damage, but I would expect this "average" to be more than it was when comparing it to the average physical portion.

Am I reading that wrong, or is the buff not affecting the shadow portion? On general basis, my physical and melee portions are closer together in damage than this, but I could just be dumb and tired(or both :X)

Edit: Disregard, answer found.

Tyr. Beheader or Keen Obsidian Edged Blade? [for frost tanking]
(If Beheader, what gem?)

I'd appreciate your input.

hi there,

isnt 44AP superior to 15 Str?

15 Str = 30 AP
+ 3% of Ravnous Dead = 0,45 Str

15,45 Str = 30,9

did i miss something?

hi guys,

I'm new on this forum. I think this is the good place to ask my question about the next patch but i'm not sure. Sorry in advance if it's not


I read that with the next patch, we will gain 3% spell damage with earth and moon (cf note on Korean serveur)

My question is what does it mean exactly? Could someone explain to me what will be our benefit on our dps?

My idea is:
On a crit SF (about 18k max for me), I'll gain about (18000/100)*3=540 spell damage
I cast my SF (unbuff) in 2.45 sec so my benefit will be 540/2.45=220.4 with each crit SF
Is it the right way or not?

Of course if i'm right, my benefit will be greater than that because my cast time will be shorter


Thx in advance

Why i think that blizzard must hate ele shamans ?

On fights like Queen, Festergut, Rotface atd atd we cannot come throuth another dps classes, you saying there that blizz have problem with hybrid but what about warriors, death knights, boomkins, paladins etc...

Now they gave us a really nice buff but this only mitigated a nerf which we have from start of the new raid instance. I dont understand why we have dps drops on bosses only for resists because i have feeling that nature resist is better then others. This dps lose is periodicly from new instance. Like when Ulduar comes...and now when ICC come...

They don't hate elemental shamans, they are just incompetent. It was foreseen that a buff was needed, and is simply explained by our bad scaling compared to the other classes. What makes the community angry is just that they wait until the last minute to buff us, while it's been month the problem is known.

So, I am posting this here because I am unable to make my own thread. I was looking over numbers and I am quite close to crit cap and was thinking maybe I should regem for haste or str? I am not gemming for arm pen til i can reach hard cap as I can currently reach soft cap with gear alone. any opinions?

does shadowmourne's proc benefit from Runic Focus or Black Ice(Talent)?

Sorry but blizzard arent happy with lot of thinks and what they do ? Nothink. If blizz do some changes with this stat it isnt in this content, maybe in Cata. We have a good 4T9 bonus and blizz know it, then when they introduced our 4T10 it must be funny for all ele shams, i think that this is the reason why our set is revealed at last. And when i hope that they boost our 4T10, what will they do ? Nerfed 4T9. Sorry but this is piece of shit.

I looking to your guild forum but dont see wws or wol because on this fight our mages do 8-10k dps and this is somethink of with my ele can only dream. Maybe it problem in me, cannot use fire totems because havent demo lock, but dont think that this do 1-2k dps on boss fights.

Ofc that my qq havent matters, but waiting havent it to. Waiting for somethink last couple of months...

One question Ive always had about the opening rotation is that since SE and ISB both are debuffs on the mob they are applied retroactively to dots already up. So what is the actual DPS benefit from applying this debuffs first instead of casting higher DPCT spells first.


Ive personally been trying to work through the math on this one but alas I cannot fathom a good way of calculating this definitively without issues I can foresee. This will become more pronounced as SE stacks 3 times, as in whats the actual calculations to determine the different in damage provided in the first 15 seconds of combat. Any ideas on how to start the math for this?

Read the thread. This was discussed at length in the past few pages.

I suppose if the tier10 chest doesn't gain expertise I might still be happier with the offset chest.

Vintagejane-Moonrunner

Right now I have a few pieces of ICC gear, and my t9 2set bonus (soon my t10 set bonus). I feel that I should be pulling more DPS than I am following the AEspamABAM standard mage rotation.

I have about 27.5k mana unbuffed without Int trinket, such as [Talisman of Resurgence], and I sometimes go oom even with Shadowfiend.
In my raid, Replenishment - Spell - World of Warcraft is not guaranteed, I will say, it is 50/50 to have one.

I want to stack more SP, but since I am having oom issue, I need to gem more Int and MP5.
My question is,

On yellow socket, should I socket Pure Int or Int + MP5?
On red one, SP + Int or SP + MP5?