Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 726

Prydain · 12/21/09, 9:18 PM

Ok, before I do anything else I want to say that I read the stickies and did not find anything about ArP Cap.

I have Protection as main spec. Since the new LFD tool was implemented I was able to find heroic dungeons faster and therefore I've decided to get together a DPS set. So far I got a few pieces together.

My problem is that i do not know how to gem for arms. Once i get the NED i will be able to start gemming for Str?. With the 2pct9 it confuses me even more because i have to calculate the extra 6% ArP that it gives you and the 10% from battle stance.

I want to know what is the cap for ArP, and when i should stop putting ArP gems in my gear and go for Str. I think ArP soft cap is what you need to reach 100% ArP when you have an ArP trinket proc and hard cap when you dont have an ArP trinket.

I was thingking it like this, once you are ArP capped the following values should look like this
ArP Cap: 100% - 1400
Battle Stance Bonus: 10% - 140
2pct9: 6% - 84
NED: 48% - 678

So 678 + 84 + 140 = 902 or 64%
then i would just need from gear and gem for 498 ArP?

If someone could make a list like that it will make my life easier
I will appreciatte any help from the community.
Thanks and regards

hock · 12/21/09, 9:26 PM

So assuming you have multiple UH DK's in the raid, what would be the best personal DPS build for a raid environment including gylphs pre T10 2pc/and w/T10 2pc? Is there a difference in rotations or specs?

Moozhe · 12/21/09, 9:26 PM

Originally Posted by Prydain

[insert useless wall of text here]

If someone could make a list like that it will make my life easier
I will appreciatte any help from the community.
Thanks and regards

If you want to make your life easier, use Rawr. It does all the simple ArP math for you, so you know when you reach 100% through gems and bonuses.

Ween · 12/21/09, 9:52 PM

Originally Posted by Prydain

I was thingking it like this, once you are ArP capped the following values should look like this
ArP Cap: 100% - 1400
Battle Stance Bonus: 10% - 140
2pct9: 6% - 84
NED: 48% - 678

So 678 + 84 + 140 = 902 or 64%
then i would just need from gear and gem for 498 ArP?

I believe that's referred to as the "soft cap", whereby you are at 100% ArP when a trinket it procced.

Hard capping ArP would be gemming\gearing to 100% ArP and using AP\Crit\Hit trinkets.

As a side note, i'm gemmed fully for STR at the moment as i've just come back from being specced Fury.

I don't honestly think i'll re-gem for ArP right now, with so much STR i feel as though it's doing okay.

Bloch · 12/21/09, 10:04 PM

If you want information on which glyphs provide the greatest HEP value, please see the TTT. There is an entire section devoted to explaining the values and why certain glyphs are ranked above others.

That being said, there are a number of errors in that massive wall of text you posted:
1. EL Glyph adds 5% to the 20% chance to proc--for a grand increase of 1% total (raising your chance to proc EL from 20% to 21%)
2. A HW with Tidal Waves up is a ~1.3 second cast--hardly a "slow" heal.
3. In raids, tanks are hit for 15-20K+ at a time. ES doesn't overheal by that much. This isn't a thread to talk about how hard your tanks are getting hit in heroics, which is really the only place I can think of where an ES would be overhealing by 75%.

SpunkySkunk347 · 12/21/09, 10:58 PM

I did not know that about the EL glyph, thank you for telling me that or else I'd still be suffering from wasting a glyph space with a small 1% increase in proc chance. The glyph explanation "5% increased chance to proc" is incredibly misleading.
About HW, the point I was trying to make was opinionated... I personally don't use HW without it being accompanied by NS.
About the earth shield, I suppose that assumption was based off of watching the tanks health bar in raids, seeing Earth Shield charges being consumed yet the tank's health bar not moving. I probably quickly and falsely assumed it to be overhealing, as I'm sure you're right. I'll have to look more closely next time, and make sure I wasn't thinking of Trash pulls or something similar. You are right though, 75% overhealing is a high estimate by any means.
With that being said, I'm going to delete a large chunk of that uselessly massive post of mine.

Slusher · 12/21/09, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Ween

I believe that's referred to as the "soft cap", whereby you are at 100% ArP when a trinket it procced.

Hard capping ArP would be gemming\gearing to 100% ArP and using AP\Crit\Hit trinkets.

As a side note, i'm gemmed fully for STR at the moment as i've just come back from being specced Fury.

I don't honestly think i'll re-gem for ArP right now, with so much STR i feel as though it's doing okay.

would you be willing to post or pm me a wws, I really am curious as to how str gemmed arms would perform with 25 man buffs, and not from a simulation standpoint

dedmonwakeen · 12/21/09, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by HiPZER

Hi, I'm sorry if this has been mentioned earlier, but I'm just wondering if any of the Simcraft calculations take the diminishing returns of haste into consideration?

Hasted_Cast_Time = Cast_Time / ( 1.0 + Haste_Gain )

1.715 = 2.5 / ( 1.0 + 0.4572 )

Evolord · 12/21/09, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Consider

No, such is not a safe conclusion: There is a weapon dps weight for differences in precisely that. Generally speaking, differences in weapon dps will outweigh a difference in weapon speed, but such isn't always the case. You merely have to multiple both by their respective weight (as well as whatever actual stats the weapon has), and each weight will take care of its own differences.

Hi Consider,

Sorry nt really good at doin the maths here by can u show us an example of how this can be done? How shld the maths be done to derive which is a superior weapon between 2 different weapon speed and weapon DPS. thanks

preds · 12/22/09, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by SpunkySkunk347

Hey guys, just wondering what you think are the best glyphs for PvE raid healing as a Resto Shaman.

Currently, I have Chain Heal, Riptide, and Earthliving.. I just found out that Earthliving glyph is horrible, so I'm dumping it for Earth Shield.

Chain heal and Earth shield are my regular glyphs that never change. The third slot I've experimented with Healing Stream, Healing Wave, Riptide and LHW.

- Healing wave was too situational for me to use, most fights where everybody is getting hit you're not using HW as your top up spell.
- The additional HoT portion of riptide mainly counted for overheals in a serious 25 man. Aside from the druids always rolling hots on people that have a DoT on them anyway, half the time I aim to consume the riptide hot with my chain heal making the usefulness of this glyph very limited.
- Healing stream was decent but with a couple of competent druids in a 25 man it didn't do a hell of a lot specially considering it's party only
- I settled on LHW in the end, usually the target you earth shield is going to get hit fairly often and it makes sense that you'll want your heals to hit them for more.

Rogerbrown · 12/22/09, 12:10 AM

can some1 explain to me 2 things that I have been wondering about for a long time please?

a) How does armor penetration and sunder+faerie fire exactly work, meaning, if you have 100% armor penetration passive, do the sunders and faerie fire have no effect on your dps anymore? Or does 100% passive armor penetration mean that you are actually reducing the target's armor by 75% and then you need sunders and faerie fire to cover the rest 25%? Someone who is 100% sure about it please explain it to me.

b) How do Piercing Shots exactly work? I was spamming steady shot at a dummy and my piercing shot dot just kept rising until it hit like 1k per tick, then it suddenly dropped to 500 even tho the dot didn't fall off the target. Again a thorough explanation of the whole mechanic on this would be awesome with examples.

I am offering 2 cookies to whoever helps me with these 2 issues.

Carobnica · 12/22/09, 12:58 AM

Simple question, you remember when you had to destroy mana gem with 2 charges in order to make new one with 3 charges? Ok. How much time has passed since they fixed that?

(explanation, few times it happend that trade window popped up with mana gem in it, so i figured my friend was still destroying his gems up till yesterday so i need to rub it more in his face

)

Aern · 12/22/09, 1:26 AM

Originally Posted by Rogerbrown

can some1 explain to me 2 things that I have been wondering about for a long time please?

a) How does armor penetration and sunder+faerie fire exactly work, meaning, if you have 100% armor penetration passive, do the sunders and faerie fire have no effect on your dps anymore? Or does 100% passive armor penetration mean that you are actually reducing the target's armor by 75% and then you need sunders and faerie fire to cover the rest 25%? Someone who is 100% sure about it please explain it to me.

b) How do Piercing Shots exactly work? I was spamming steady shot at a dummy and my piercing shot dot just kept rising until it hit like 1k per tick, then it suddenly dropped to 500 even tho the dot didn't fall off the target. Again a thorough explanation of the whole mechanic on this would be awesome with examples.

I am offering 2 cookies to whoever helps me with these 2 issues.

I think I have the answer for your first question though I'm not sure if I have the way the mechanics work exactly correct.

ArP from what I understand is capped at exactly how many points of armor it can reduce on the target. Boss armor is higher than this amount. Sunder and FF serve to lower the boss's total armor by a percentage (25% at full stacks and FF up) which drops the boss armor down to a level where you can then remove the rest with ArP.

To answer your second question I think JoeF-3 just posted a response that should explain it to you a few posts up.

Yes. If you do a 10k aimed shot crit, then you'll get a 3k piercing shot dot on your target. That's 375 damage a tick for 8 ticks.

5 seconds later, you get a steady shot crit for 3k. This is a 900 piercing shot dot. your current piercing shot has 3 ticks left at 375 damage. These all get added together to form the damage base of the new piercing shot. 900+3*375=2025. This is the damage your new piercing shots bleed will do, or 253.125 per tick. So it will look like a smaller bleed, but it will do all the damage it should (unless he dies with the bleed still going, then you might lose a little bit - but who cares, he's dead).

BTW, this is the exact same mechanic as the Deep Wounds talent in the warrior Arms tree.

Edit: This is ignoring the bleed damage debuffs, obviously. Just a simplified way to explain the mechanic in question.

Synshan · 12/22/09, 1:40 AM

Forgive me if this has already be discussed earlier but I'm curious to know if you are dual-wielding 1.4 daggers would it matter if the DP was on the MH and IP on OH or should we continue with DP on OH as is expected for 1.8/1.4 setup with 51/18/2 spec?

Ween · 12/22/09, 1:53 AM

It will have to wait til Wednesday as i only just swapped back and haven't raided 25 like this yet (seriously anyway)