Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 747

Senres · 12/28/09, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by RootBreaker

Unless you're moving, even spontaneously generating Surge of Light procs is a decrease in HPS, since surge of light flash heal can't crit and takes the same amount of time as a normal flash heal.

Yes, but the healing from a SoL FH is applied at the beginning of the GCD while the healing from a normal FH is applied at the end of a GCD. The difference doesn't often matter, but it can be the difference between a raid member living or dying. The heal being 5k versus 7.5k in that situation is usually not important.

In terms of straight HPS, you're absolutely right.

Miarose · 12/29/09, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Senres

Yes, but the healing from a SoL FH is applied at the beginning of the GCD while the healing from a normal FH is applied at the end of a GCD. The difference doesn't often matter, but it can be the difference between a raid member living or dying. The heal being 5k versus 7.5k in that situation is usually not important.

In terms of straight HPS, you're absolutely right.

Empowered renew is also applied right away. At least with emp renew you are able to proc Holy Concentration, and Test of Faith+emp renew can be pretty powerful. The fact that you can renew, and proc SoL and cast that free heal while on the move is much more beneficial than saving the mana from a single flash heal.

If mana is seriously such an issue where you need to manage it and you're relying on your SoL procs to regen, then you need to take a serious look at your playstyle/gearing.Keep in mind that the 5 second rule is pretty much moot these days. And personally I'd rather be proccing HC, than grabbing a GCD of "free casting time" if I were having mana issues

Tauraherion · 12/29/09, 12:04 AM

I know it is New Year and everything but are there plans for an update soon?

Shinsui · 12/29/09, 12:10 AM

Yeah from what I've been seeing the gunship gloves are good, extremely good when you get to the 277 version of them

KaiserBob · 12/29/09, 2:43 AM

Just a thought, but could an addon be written for LB decursive style? Perhaps after tab targeting and applying LB once to each mob, the addon can timestamp and log the initial application and assign a decursive style button that would light up when it was time to reapply and clicking would target the mob and cast LB. The timestamp should get around the duplicate mob name issue, feasible? Seems like it would optimize uptime and be one less thing to have to think about in a fight

EnderW · 12/29/09, 2:50 AM

Originally Posted by gregorian

There's no question, really. Eventually you would want to get 4pc, which would cost you 310-345 Frost, cf 240-270 Conquest for T9.66 (i245). Also consider that ICC is gated content; flow of frost badges is slow. So getting your 4pT10 is probably going to take you at least twice as long as you did for 4pT9. IMO save up and buy 2 pieces, work toward 3rd and 4th piece, THEN get the extras.

Assuming the PVP season 9 hits sometime next month, does anyone know for sure if the new VoA boss is going to have a chance to drop T10?
I'd rather not buy the gloves and legs first up.

Flick86 · 12/29/09, 3:50 AM

Originally Posted by Rhinoe

Dumb question:

Pre t10 gear

23 agility to cloak (engineering) or Haste to cloak for Unholy or is not much of a difference.

take 23 agi. The difference is small, but agi is slightly better.

Sakuratei · 12/29/09, 6:47 AM

Originally Posted by piken

This is the statement that doesn't 100% fit that I am looking for math to prove. Your looking at the stated dps value of a weapon and not the modified dps based on ap. Here is a quote from my last post in the other thread.
ooking at just the 245 lionhead and the 245 grinder

1. LH = 384 + ( 5121 / 14 ) = 749.79
2. Gr = 665 + ( 5121 / 14 ) = 1030.79

Look at the best possible damage over 39 sec with no crits you get.

1. 19494.54 = 499.86 dps (324.91 dps oh) = 824.77 total dps
2. 15461.85 = 396.46 dps (257.70 dps oh) = 654.16 total dps

Your math is still flawed. You've taken average weapon damage, slapped on AP DPS increase and called the result average DPS. Not to mention that it doesn't include strike damage or slow/fast weapon modifiers at all.

I'll give you a simple overview of how it works. If we take heroic LHS and heroic CotD from previous post, they both have 216 DPS. No matter what AP value you give out, it will increase both weapons by the same amount, and the DPS produced will be the same from both weapons if you only look at auto attacks.

Moving on to instant attacks, they take your average damage and adds the AP DPS multiplied by a normalized value depending on what weapon you use. The normalized value for onehand weapons is 2.4, for daggers it's 1.7 and for twohanded weapons it's 3.3.

The average damage of LHS is 325, the average damage of CotD is 563. SO again, no matter what AP value you set in, the AP value affects both weapons the same (AWD + (AP/14)*2.4), and you can see straight from average weapon damage that the slower CotD will do mroe damage.

The only mechanic that would favor fast weapons is flat percent proc chances, such as Rogue poisons or the Rogue talent Combat Potency. Since DW frost has no mechanics that use flat percentage proc chances from white attacks, there is no reason to use a fast weapon. However, all our strikes use both weapons, so we benefit greatly from using two slow weapons for that.

To summarize, slow weapons are better than fast weapons because they have the same white damage, but slow weapons have better strike damage.

Chthonios · 12/29/09, 6:58 AM

Hiya, been reading this site for awhile now, but with the recent change to conflegrate (60% immo damage as instant + 20% dot, rather than a set time), I've been prompted to post.
I play around with my locks spec quite a bit, and with this recent change, I found something that might be a decent spec
Something like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Specifically, opening up demonology to get Molten Core. This turns immolate into a 24 sec duration and lets corruption finally have a decent use for us, powering up our incinerates. The 24 second immolate lets that new and improved conflagrate have alot more welly, if, less crit from destro talents.

Of course, boss rotation would be CoD/CotE - Immolate - Curruption. Conflage when available, fill in with incinerate (or even soul fire if your shards are well stocked).

Any thoughts from the mathameticians amongst us, my own testing puts this on par with 'standard' destro specs.

Starfox · 12/29/09, 7:16 AM

Originally Posted by Sakuratei

Moving on to instant attacks, they take your average damage and adds the AP DPS multiplied by a normalized value depending on what weapon you use. The normalized value for slow onehand weapons is 2.4, fast onehand weapons (not daggers) is 1.5, for daggers it's 1.3 and for twohanded wepaons it's 3.3.

Well, normalization speeds for weapons are

    * 1.7 for daggers
    * 2.4 for other one-handed weapons
    * 3.3 for two-handed weapons
    * 2.8 for ranged weapons

I beginn to think piken is just trolling the frost dk threads, because he refuses to take arguments made by others into consideration. He just keeps on with his "Apples > Oranges"-comparison posts.

Sakuratei · 12/29/09, 7:57 AM

Originally Posted by Starfox

Well, normalization speeds for weapons are

    * 1.7 for daggers
    * 2.4 for other one-handed weapons
    * 3.3 for two-handed weapons
    * 2.8 for ranged weapons

I beginn to think piken is just trolling the frost dk threads, because he refuses to take arguments made by others into consideration. He just keeps on with his "Apples > Oranges"-comparison posts.

Hm, I was certain that weapons in the 1.x speed range had a different modifier than weapons in 2.x speed range. Perhaps that changed, or my memory has just taken a hit.

Senres · 12/29/09, 8:46 AM

I'm not supporting his idea of using Mind Sear to proc SoL. That doesn't sound like a very good use of time or mana to me. I'm simply pointing out that SoL has advantages over a normal flash heal despite the HPS loss, even if you ignore the fact that you can cast it on the run.

• Wizeowel · 12/29/09, 9:14 AM

Originally Posted by KaiserBob

Just a thought, but could an addon be written for LB decursive style?

No, because as soon as you are in combat you cannot add unprotected unitframes to the interface. Decursive works by pre-assigning its (micro-)unitframes to 'raid1', 'raid2', ... 'raidpet40', which are protected and can be shown/hidden during combat. But mobs do not have such designations and cannot be pre-assigned like players and pets can.

heartbeatz · 12/29/09, 9:54 AM

T9 and T10 4 piece set bonuses, are they worth it at all?

xjonx · 12/29/09, 9:58 AM

short question about dk blood tanking:

how important is the hitcap if i am far above the expertise cap?
cuz if i use my "better" gear, my hitcap decreases to 5% and my exp zu 9%

sure i wnat to wear the bestter gear, but not if the price is losing threat.

cheers,
jon
(sorry about my english^^)