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Old 01/14/10, 2:40 PM   #12151
inphared
Von Kaiser
 
Tanaomit
Troll Mage
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by Hibbo View Post
I think after the Hotfix this has changed a little bit now.
For a 2 Tank Strat you have 90 seconds till the Damage on the Raid raises from 9375 to 16406 where you need a RDPS with 160k.

So i think the only possible Strat is the 3 Tank one.
There you have 110-120 Seconds with a needed RPDS from 130k-120k till the Damage raises at 120 Seconds from 11250 to 18750 every 3 Seconds.
Just wanted to pop in and say the 2 tank strategy is definitely still viable. Our guild 1 shot him last night in 25 man only using 2.

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Old 01/14/10, 3:02 PM   #12152
ErikM
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Shattered Hand
I play mutilate.

I just spent a few hours fiddling with Aldrianna's sheet and as far as I can tell, until we can get our hands on 4p heroic 277 + heroic Ikfirus's , the best gear setup seems to be T10 gloves/shoulders + Ikfirus's sack/Gangrenous Leggings/Geistlord's Sack of Punishment with Seal of Many mouths and Shawl of Nerubian Silk to get exp. capped.

I used only 25 normal offpieces and 251 T10 pieces.
Check my armory to see what I plugged in all of the remaining slots.

The moment I swap any of the offpieces to try and gain the 4p bonus I get a net dps loss of within the range of 200'ish dps.

Even with the helm/legs slots at sanctified 264 it's barely on par with 2pT10 + 2 offpiece 264.

Now if I plug in 2p sanctified ilvl264 ( gloves-shoulders again ) with 277 Gangrenous and Geistlord I show a 150dps upgrade over 4 piece sanctified+ ikfirus's. ( Although in some instances it seems Shadow Seeker tunic wins by 40'ish dps over Ikfirus's 264 )

Since only the last boss of each wing drops tokens and since everyone needs em and since we do need the 264 to get the 277.. It can be a very long time before we actually get our hands on even 4 piece 264 let alone 277.

Of course 4 piece 277 + heroic Ikfirus's comes on top in the end , but until we can actually get 4p 277 ( or unless 4p bonus has been modeled erroneously or it's just that bad ) my sheet shows that the optimal mut setup looks like..

( I did not plug in Heartpierce or Tiny Abom since their value seemsto be iffy right now, minus what Arthas could possible have in stock )

MH: Ribspreader (H)
OH: Lungbreaker (H)
Thrown: Gluth's fetching knife (H)
Head: Geistlord's Punishment sack (H)
Neck: Precious's Putrid collar (H)
Shoulders: 264/277 T10 Shadowblade
Cloak: Shawl of Nerubian Silk (H)
Chest: Ikfirus's Sack of wonder (H)
Bracers: Tossk's Maximized Handguards (H)
Gloves: 264/277 T10 Shadowblade
Belt: Soulthief's braided belt (H)
Pants: Gangrenous Leggings (H)
Boots: Frostbitten Fur boots (H)
Rings : Ashen exalted + Seal of Many Mouths (H) or Band of the Bone Colossus (H) and gem some Exp.
Trinkets: WFS (H) and Herkuml

Gems are all starks+1 tear + relentless obviously.
Ran this for hours as a JC/Engineer and the sheet showed a slight upgrade when socketing 3 x quick dragon eyes instead of 3 x bright dragon eyes.

Of course I might be wrong, but it's starting to feel like we should perhaps only buy the gloves and shoulders as mutilate and aim for offpieces instead of 4 piece until we can actually easily get our hands on tokens..

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Old 01/14/10, 3:11 PM   #12153
sacorac
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Frostmourne
Thanks for that clarification re: the librams - it was something I had been trying to figure out. I know trash is trash, but conversely- dps is dps.

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Old 01/14/10, 3:14 PM   #12154
Cowrage
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Arathor
Thanks for the great advice all.

I will rework my rotation a bit and I have already started to re-gem my gear. I am at both the Hit and Exp cap again.

I also did drop my hybrid spec and went full tank spec.

Thanks again!

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Old 01/14/10, 3:21 PM   #12155
Choque
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
sorry to interrupt your discussion here but i just wanted to ask why 15 str is recommended for the glove enchant? isn't 44 AP superior to 15 str? 15 str equals 30 AP so it's less AP but str scales with buffs afaik.

sorry for asking this. i would have used the search function but i tryed searching for 15 strength or 44 attack power and yea, too short for the search engine

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Old 01/14/10, 3:27 PM   #12156
Khaosknight
Von Kaiser
 
Khaosknight's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Kargath
Not to completely disrupt the conversation here, but has any testing been done on Tiny Abomination in a Jar for Unholy DK's? As far as I know, it procs off of literally every ability we cast (including HoW, diseases, diseases on multiple targets, necrosis, bcb etc)

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Old 01/14/10, 3:37 PM   #12157
Rahdik
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by DylanV View Post
I was wondering if the EP values for AP and ArP are changed on this spreadsheet due to the recent hotfix to rogues.
AP is ALWAYS 1, no matter what happens to rogues. It's the base of the whole system. ArP EP is based around your stats, it will always change if anything else changes. All EP values except AP will change. There was no nerf to ArP rating that hasn't been in both sheets for a long time now.

@ErikM: There is little use in posting a "BiS" list since we don't know how everything works. Even you stated you left out TAiJ and Heartpierce since the data isn't concrete yet. You're simply creating a ""Best right now" list which has little value because implementing what isn't implemented could change the whole setup. There have already been many "Best right now" lists in multiple threads.

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Old 01/14/10, 3:38 PM   #12158
budsbud66
 
Troll Mage
 
Uther
Are we assuming this will BiS? Anyone know if it will be BiS for any other casters?

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Old 01/14/10, 5:58 PM   #12159
vzlaocer
Glass Joe
 
vzlaocer's Avatar
 
Orc Warrior
 
Ragnaros
hi im new , my main char its a warrior fury i have a decent gear but i need to raise up my dps , i read all the forum and i have a god rotation god caps but i think the lag its killing me


my firts impression en icc 25 its

lord marrowar 4.7 k dps
lady 6 k dps
and whit the last boss in first room i make a 7.5 k dps

i think im low cuz i have this gear The World of Warcraft Armory - Idreamyou @ Ragnaros - Profile

if i need any change plz ill try ty and sorry for my bad english

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Old 01/14/10, 6:30 PM   #12160
thedrewster77
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
The World of Warcraft Armory - Galain @ Mal'Ganis - Profile If you check my armory right now, I'm in my moonkin gear. I know there are some gems I need to replace (particularly with epic versions, but bear with me on those)

I did a ToC25 last night in a PuG and averaged 5200dps over the whole instance. I peaked at like 7.2k on twins (only one empowered) and bottomed at like 4900dps on anub. Recount showed my average dot's up as 1.7. I don't know what my uptime on MF/IS were, but on anything lasting long enough for a full duration, I'd apply and try to keep them up at all times. Is the fact that I'm in ALL offset gear with far too much spirit killing my dps? I'm following Hamlet's advice as closely as I can in terms of rotation, etc.

I'm fearing that it's either major gear issues in terms of stats or I'm simply a bad moonkin. It is my offspec (though I have more higher level gear for it...) but I'd like to do as well as I can because I almost always end up DPSing on fights like Saurfang.

ETA: My spec is all fubar. How the hell... I'll fix this tonight. WrathCalcs has me at about 275dps higher if I understand it correctly with the spec fixed, but that won't solve all of my problems.

With all the numbers plugged into WrathCalcs, I'm looking at 6.5k in current spec with our average 10 man buffs. This indicates either fight mechanics are screwing me up (though on something like Saurfang it's not too much movement...) or my capabilities as a player. Obviously you can't see me play, so it'll be hard to diagnose I suppose. I appreciate any tips you can provide.

Last edited by thedrewster77 : 01/14/10 at 7:04 PM.

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Old 01/14/10, 6:40 PM   #12161
Nanahanna
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Malfurion
This may be a stupid question, but searching I found nothing.
What ever happened with the felguard/emberstorm 0/41/30 spec?
Looking at the decimation changes and hasted corruptions procing molten core does it become viable again?
I am no simcraft wizard, but this was a very interesting spec for me.

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Old 01/14/10, 6:42 PM   #12162
gillon
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Outland (EU)
Originally Posted by Radicool View Post
The bar you're especially interested in is Cool Line.

Radicool UI

Unit frames = Pitbull4
Action bar = Bartender 4
Buff frames = Satrina Buff Frames 3
Threat meter = Omen
Damage meter = Skada
Name plates = Cael Nameplates w/ Virtual Plates
Button facade = ButtonFacade w/ NotCaith skin
Button Cooldowns = OmniCC
Boss mod = Deadly Boss Mods
Chat = Prat 3.0
Chat tabs = Fane
Chat edit box highlighting = Neon Chat
Cooldown bar = Cool Line
Combo point sounds = Hear Kitty
Combo point display = Basic Combo Points
Combat text = MSBT
Casting bars = Quartz
Minimap = pMinimap
Full buff check = Buff Enough
Combat timers = NeedToKnow
Hotkey text = CleanHotKey
Bags = cargBags w/ cargBags Nivaya plugin
Stats = StatBlockCore w/ Durability, Melee Stats, FPS, Latency, Memory
Loot frame = XLoot w/ Group, Master, Monitor
Key Acceleration = Snowfall KeyPress
Latency Fix = LeatrixLatencyFix
Panel art = kgPanels
Misdirection announce = RogueWhistle
UI art = Skinner
Tooltip = TipTac


Raid Leader Tools

Flask/food raid check = CheckIt (aka IdCheckThat)
DBM Spell Timers = DBM Spell Timers
I would love to have my UI set up like that, too bad I lack the effort/time to do it.

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Old 01/14/10, 6:55 PM   #12163
Darkmantle
King Hippo
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Spinebreaker
Originally Posted by Nanahanna View Post
This may be a stupid question, but searching I found nothing.
What ever happened with the felguard/emberstorm 0/41/30 spec?
Looking at the decimation changes and hasted corruptions procing molten core does it become viable again?
I am no simcraft wizard, but this was a very interesting spec for me.
The previous explanation was that it was just so far below the regular specs that it wasn't worth including anymore, but I'm not sure if it has been checked with the recent changes.

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Old 01/14/10, 6:55 PM   #12164
Selkech
 
Selkech's Avatar
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Silver Hand
Frost DPS

Hey there!
I've been playing a death knight since the release of Lich King, and I can be called a DPS Theorist in such ways... and especially with Frost DPS... partly because I enjoy it the most and I have gotten crafty and innately reflexive with how it operates in different types of battles... etc, etc. But also because I'm practically 1 of 5 good Frost Death Knights on our non-PvE server.

I've been reading the initial post, and I can see that you all have really worked hard to categorize and explain this art of Deeps, because frankly, I couldn't explain it for the life of me :P

Anyway, onwards to srs bznz. Like I said, when you become "innate" to your class as if it was your second nature, you can tend to be drawn the "familiar" way of doing things... aka, You can always be good at the spec you're used to (even if it isn't mathematically the best), and you suddenly lose your skill when you change into another. (I can't get Unholy down, but it seems to be all the rage here in 'da hood)

My point being, I've been a Frost DPS for upwards of nine months now, and I don't see myself switching for a long while, but people still ask why I play the way I do. My spec is 3/51/17 (3/3 in Subversion, 2/3 in BCB) and always has been. For my own Simplicity, I skip Deathchill and Unbreakable Armor, only for the reason that I'm lazy and don't want to watch my buffs every 15 seconds. I use Unholy Presence and Glyph of HB.

I'm only online right now to theorycraft about why I choose these two elements of my class, and willing to recieve any explanations, criticism, death threats, etc.

[Glyph of Howling Blast] - Allows the Howling Blast ability to cause Frost Fever.

I chose to apply this glyph rather than 3.3 Glyph of Icy Touch (20% FF damage). I see that Icy Touch is a general part of a 3.3 Frost rotation (or so you say) but I think differently. Since the power of Icy Touch is only minimal, I can override spending the frost rune on refreshing the disease I already have up, and instead keep the uptime of Frost Fever 100% just in the Rime HB proc. I never need to worry about refreshing FF since its already a part of my rotation, see? And because of 3/3 in Blood of the North (tier 8 of Frost tree) my extra Frost runes are actually and always Death runes. And of course, with DR I can use a free Obliterate. Mmmmm damage. Any thoughts on this?


Unholy Presence - Infuses the Death Knight with unholy fury, increasing attack speed by 15%, movement speed by 15%, and reducing the global cooldown on all your abilities by 0.5 sec.

Also, I'm going to explain why I personally think Unholy is a still-viable DPS Presence both on long, slow, single-target battles (Saurfang) - AND on fights where you must move around a lot to kill frequent adds or get outta dodge of the large fire the boss just put on the ground... again.

Here is a simulation of my Frost DPS in Blood Pres.
BBfFuU - 0 sec - Howling Blast - 15 RP (Assuming that I didn't use HoW before the battle)
BBfFuu - 1.5 sec - Plague Strike - 25 RP
bBfFuu - 3 sec - Blood Strike - 35 RP
bbfFuu - 4.5 sec - Blood Strike - 45 RP
DbfFuu - 6 sec - Blood Tap - 55 RP
dbffuu - 6 sec - Obliterate - 65 RP
dbffuu - 7.5 sec - Frost Strike - 33 RP
dbffuu - 9 sec - Frost Strike - 1 RP

This brings us back to the beginning, but with a 0.5 delay to the active runes. PLEASE NOTE: The first HB may seem like a wasted rune/glyph, but with 3/3 in Rime, I am able to successfully keep the uptime 100% without consuming runes... The problem is, I can't suitably use Howling Blast, while other runes continue to be available. HB is not prioritized over Obliterate, but I am using that certain GCD having to reset my FF. Applying Glyph of Icy Touch only makes it worse. Since it frees one Unholy rune, I can't help but cast an Obliterate between PS and BS (see diagram above), which ultimately delays the runic system by another 1.5 seconds.

Also note that after every cycle the 10 second rotation (I know its not a rotation. I'm just giving it a name) - I am able to use an ability again relatively 10.5 seconds (if my timing is optimal) after first using the runes. This means that after 30 seconds, I can reset my "cycle," not even using the last 1.5 seconds for a final move. This ultimately means that after 30~ seconds, I will have the runic power for a FS and never be able to use it in a fight. Ever.

NOTE: This is tested against a dummy THOROUGHLY. I used Empower Rune Weapon in my other simulations. After one minute of attack, my Runic Power was completely full, and it remained that way the entire battle. Frost Strike had a striking 1100 of my total DPS (Which was around 4500 in my gear), but only 12% of my total damage.

The only drawback to Unholy Presence is that nasty downtime while all your runes are unavailable. But you can learn to use that downtime to gain runic power via HoW, or pop a Blood Tap right when it becomes available. Plus, ERW will prove to be an excellent ability in Unholy, since it allows you to reset your priority, fill up your Runic Power pool, FS-spam it up, and your other runes will start popping again, almost religiously so.

Any thoughts or "I can prove you wrong" epiphanies? I'm open to new ideas.

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Old 01/14/10, 7:02 PM   #12165
jabbfire
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Karazhan (EU)
Slightly off-topic. but im getting to the point now where I should be gearing into t10 gear and looking at Arp. However, i moved house during ulduar and the entire arp introduction and am a little confused by it all. Is there a soft cap? i understand atm I shouldnt really aim for too much of it but of course I dont want to get to the point where im suffering a waste from having too much (is that even possible?)

Really appreciate all the help on here-apparently since the patch and ss nerf ive respecced 33 times ha, my gear isnt awesome and i have a slightly differing spec to some mentioned but am basically aoe with reaping in t9 etc as i cba to respec again. In icc 10 im pulling 20k on some trash and ofc even higher in 25man, is this standard or are you guys pulling higher? On single targets I can pull about 7k+ depending on the boss fight etc. If you guys would liek to offer any advice it would be greatly appreciated-my char is maijinbuu on karazhan EU and you can see stats of the fights etc at WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay

I will appreciate any feedback

Jabbs
edit: im seeing the higher dps via recount during the fight, whereas the stats I see are showing lower-like I say im new

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