Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 814

Nagoth · 01/15/10, 6:42 AM

Is there any reason to stack spirit what so ever as an aff lock?

Since we don't benefit from the extra sp from the fel armor points as we don't have them.

Also, life tap seems to not be as important any more. Dark pact does not steal life, which you in most cases need when on the move. If by that logic we don't need life tap, there is no need for glyph of life tap anymore either, and what to replace it with?

really hope there are someone here who can shed some light on this matter. tyvm in advance =)

purefury · 01/15/10, 6:49 AM

Originally Posted by Nagoth

Is there any reason to stack spirit what so ever as an aff lock?

Since we don't benefit from the extra sp from the fel armor points as we don't have them.

Also, life tap seems to not be as important any more. Dark pact does not steal life, which you in most cases need when on the move. If by that logic we don't need life tap, there is no need for glyph of life tap anymore either, and what to replace it with?

really hope there are someone here who can shed some light on this matter. tyvm in advance =)

Stacking spirit is wrong for every specc. You MIGHT prefer spirit over crit/haste as a demonology rDPS buffer, but all other, each stat got its own (diminishing) value. Try to get items with most DPS on them, and gem best stat u can.

MaddHawk · 01/15/10, 7:41 AM

First off, thank you both for the replies. This is what I was looking for so I can show my Guild Leader and the other mage that I do know a little something about what I talking about. Now to answer your question Setia.

Originally Posted by Setia

I do not get why you'd want to exclude talents from your comparison, or use an averaged out value of the spellpower buff: talents (+% int, % of int to spellpower) and cooldown stacking are what make this trinket useful.

I wanted to exclude the arcane talents that inflate the intellect and the resulting crit rating. This was to get a base line comparison to the Sundial. The crit gained from the Sundial is still superior to the Talisman when arcane talents and Kings is taken into account.

Originally Posted by Cartesian

Talisman has two upsides compared to Sliver that you are not taking into account. The larger mana pools allows for more nuking before you have to evocate which is a significant gain (and also increases your mana regen from a few raid-based sources) and stacking it with other cooldowns increases the value of the on-use effect.

The normal version of the Sliver is 1625 mana restored every 2 minutes. The mana pool gained from the Talisman, taking Student of the Mind and Kings into account, is 2415. This means that your mana pool is effectively greater with the Sliver than it is with the Talisman. Now you mentioned the ability to stack the /use effect with other cooldowns. This is where the real uncertianty comes in for me.

Amrahil · 01/15/10, 8:06 AM

Originally Posted by dyelynn

In the 10 man I did last week, our 3 ranged were myself(mage), a hunter and a shadow priest... the only time anyone ran anywhere (other than us 3 clustering together) is if both of the spores were in melee, or ranged. If you, as a healer, are standing with the melee, there's no reason for you to run out to the ranged if there's a spore in melee... and if both spores are in range, 1 of the range should run in to melee.

Actually the best thing would be to have 1 healer at ranged & 1 in melee, this way if both healers get spore they can stay put & heal - the healer at ranged would stand in the center of any formation you are forming, and the players with spore at ranged would move on top of him. This way the only situtation where a healer would have to move is if the healer in melee & tank currently tanking get the spore. This applies to 10man only, of course.

Jinzo · 01/15/10, 8:29 AM

Hello, I have a question regarding Tiny Abominition in a Jar. I picked this up a couple of days ago and the Combat 1.4.2 spreadsheet showed it as a 228.9 dps upgrade when I replaced it with Death's Verdict/Choice (the 245 version). Now I've read that it's behaviour has changed alot but when I use the Combat 1.4.3 spreadsheet it says that using Tiny Abominition in a Jar over Death's Verdict/Choice is actually a loss of about 20 dps. Has it value go down so much that a ilvl 245 trinket has become better? If so isn't it very likely it will get buffed soonish?

Tygrene · 01/15/10, 9:21 AM

Hello, I hope this is the best place to post this:
1- I am naturally assuming that BL affects the internal cd on all proc (not use) trinkets. Correct if I am wrong.
2- In a fight like Festergut my guild is divided into 3 groups- one who prefers BL right in the start so as to get full use of the effect; another preferring after about 20 seconds so that dps is stabilizing with debuffs, etc; and a last who want to wait until the tank with the DPS bonus is going to be dpsing during a second/ third inhale to benefit from that additional heightened DPS. However, the first two groups feel that there would be dps that would not benefit from BL at that late point in the fight. Anyone on the right track, or are we all just confused by the math?

Nuyi · 01/15/10, 9:28 AM

I've been inactive since Januar. Back for like 1,5 month now, so I upgraded as quickly as I could.

I'm using the combat axe/swords spec. I've been trying to find the new hit caps. I've been running around the forum back and forth but can't really find some clear answers.

Anyone knows the caps of crit/hit/exp/armp?

Seems though that Combat rogue's have lost their edge over Muti rogue's. Hope you guys can help me out on this one. Alot has changed since I left.

Atm on static fights fully raid buffed I reach around 8k DPS, a little more , so there is room for huge improvement.

sandro226 · 01/15/10, 9:42 AM

Info is in this thread:

Pocket Guide to WOTLK (Updated for 3.3)

Juravieal · 01/15/10, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by MaddHawk

First off, thank you both for the replies. This is what I was looking for so I can show my Guild Leader and the other mage that I do know a little something about what I talking about. Now to answer your question Setia.

I wanted to exclude the arcane talents that inflate the intellect and the resulting crit rating. This was to get a base line comparison to the Sundial. The crit gained from the Sundial is still superior to the Talisman when arcane talents and Kings is taken into account.

The normal version of the Sliver is 1625 mana restored every 2 minutes. The mana pool gained from the Talisman, taking Student of the Mind and Kings into account, is 2415. This means that your mana pool is effectively greater with the Sliver than it is with the Talisman. Now you mentioned the ability to stack the /use effect with other cooldowns. This is where the real uncertianty comes in for me.

Have you looked into using Rawr for this sort of comparison? Im not really sure exactly what you mean by "the crit from sundial is superior...." unless you mean the crit itself. As for the dps, it isnt superior at all. Just taking a quick couple of minutes to import you into rawr supplies your answers quite nicely. With your particular setup currently, it lists talisman over sliver by 110 dps, and over sundial by 143.

Both talisman and abyssal are superior choices for your current setup, up until Reign and/or Spyglass.

riinuka · 01/15/10, 10:08 AM

Okay, so I have barely ever played a mage myself, and when I have, it's been as TTW fire or PVP frost. However, having both a roommate/former guild leader who plays a mage, and a significant other / significant other's best friend that play mages, I can safely assume I know a bit about the class when trying to guide my own guild members.. or at least I can come here and do the research to 'catch up'.

My question is this. One of my arcane mages is complaining about mana issues (not uncommon) but seems to be using his mana gems efficiently. (He says he uses a gem after a full 'rotation', more on that in a sec.. Honestly I thought he'd need to wait till at least 2 rotations, but..)

He apparently does use evocation, I've seen him do it. He doesn't cut it off either, uses the full channel, which makes me think he uses it at low mana and feels the need for a full use.

My major problem with him - he keeps rolling on mp5 gear because he says it'll help his mana efficiency. When he rolled pretty quickly for the spellpower / use: restore mana trinket out of 10 ICC the other day (before my healers even had a chance to roll), and claimed he wanted it for the straight SP gain and the restore to mana, I sat down to figure out why he's having issues..

-Also-, he's calling out for Innervates from healers when the main point of this spec is to manage your own mana usage.. I can't say I wasn't miffed when he asked an undergeared (i.e. boomkin-geared, hah hah) tree, who did run a bit OOM during a longer fight, to Inn him when the tree needed it himself.

The reason he feels he has to do all this: He's using this as his rotation.. constantly.

ABx6;'6'MBAM no aBarr.

Meaning, he -always- goes to 6x AB, doesn't use a hasted Missiles if it procs prior to this, and doesn't generally cast Barr (not clear on the last point though it's not as significant). He clears the 6 stack with Missiles regardless of proc or not, so if he's doing it to fish, he's not doing it so effectively.

He says it's because from what he's gathered here, it's more DPS to just spam AB, but he's saying that regardless of mana.. he's running himself dry, and not swapping to anything like ABx2 or ABx3 to conserve.

What should I do besides tell him "I don't think that's how you should do it"? I did try to reason with him (as did another mage in my guild), but he pointed to EJ as the source of his rotation. I get the idea that since he knows I don't play a mage often myself, that I'm talking crap, but I know the mechanics and this seems really inefficient / careless to me.

Edit : His armory

The World of Warcraft Armory - Medeoan @ Misha - Profile

He doesn't appear to use the IA / Wards trick at all, seems. Also took Frostbite but I don't think he casts frost spells at all (except for his clones during MI).

Arkaz · 01/15/10, 10:21 AM

Your 'friend' is mistaken, there is no mathematical incentive to stack AB past 4 unless you are still fishing for a MBAM. In fact, I am fairly certain the logic he is advocating has never been considered optimal by anyone past himself.

riinuka · 01/15/10, 10:30 AM

That's what I thought, and tried to tell him. He swore up and down it was on an EJ post and 'testing that they're doing suggests that AB spam is higher DPS'.. which is true, if you're doing only that and have unlimited mana. Which you don't. All of his actions are extremely selfish, and basically point to him wanting to have really high DPS at the cost of everyone else in the raid. Kind of surprised he doesn't take advantage of shielding if he's researched like he says.

oups · 01/15/10, 10:35 AM

Hi guys,

Did anybody already test to heal the Abo for the Professor encounter and check if revitalize proc on the Abo?
Is it consider as a bug exploit?

Thanks for your feedback.

vALKHAN · 01/15/10, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Nynx

This is what i'm thinking, tbh.

Changed my 4pT9 yesterday for 2pT10 + 2pT9 reaping build and lost about 400-500dps on Saurfang straight away. With this gear, sitting around 400 ArP.

Tho my gear isnt that bad, the problem should be in my weapon -> Ramaladni's Blade of Culling - the one from Saurfang 10man.

*EDIT*
Just simulated on Rawr and the results were:
(being focused on hitcap, for starts)

4p T9 with Ramaladni's Blade of Culling = 5456 dps (no buffs besides HoW and with the non-reaping build)

4p T9 with non-reaping build and with Bryntroll, the Bone Arbiter = 5866 dps

2p T10 + 2p T9 with same weapon and reaping build = 5075 dps

2p T10 + 2p T9 (same as above) with reaping build and with Bryntroll, the Bone Arbiter = 5540 dps

Can anyone give an opinion about Rawr results, even if its just theory ?
*EDIT*

Should i probly stick for 4pT9 non-reaping build until i get Bryntroll, the Bone Arbiter or Shadow's Edge ?

Well, I got my byntroll and 2 pc T10,5 so I tried reaping build.
After 2 ICC 25 raids I did notice that I lost about 500dps from no-reaping build with 4 PC T9.5 .
Something is not working here.
I will post results asap but with no reaping build ad 4T9 I could get 8.5k dps on Festergut, with reaping build and 2pcY10 I just get 8k..

JVerbit · 01/15/10, 11:08 AM

I've lurked for a while around EJ and finally made an account so I could contribute.

Please check me on these 3 thing below, I am in my office right now:

switching SS and SS_0 around on the priority list nets a DPS increase
Glyph of Fire Elemental in place of Wind Fury Glyph nets higher DPS
Moving Fire Elemental to the 2nd slot on the priority list nets a DPS increase if glyphed

Item 1 may or may not really increase DPS. Item 3 shows a minor DPS increase. Both of these items noted are the slightest increase on my sims -- they probably can be ignored.

As for item 2, I know using Fire Elemental has limited utility or very little use in moving fights; however, it does seem to sim higher theoretical DPS for fights over 5 minutes and 45 second.