Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 835

Graf Eisen · 01/21/10, 9:20 AM

5x1 is shorthand for the standard AOE healing "rotation" that provides maximum HPS to the raid, which is rejuv X5, then wild growth. You can break it obviously to do things like nourish and swiftmend, but the 5x1 rotation is generally regarded to be the optimal AOE healing rotation on fights where everyone is constantly taking damage to an aura, such as on the Val'kyr Twins.

Also, on the subject of gearing/stat weights, I follow the same general philosophy that Arawethion laid out with his proposed stat weights in the first post. Even though on most fights I don't go OOM, or for that matter even come close to going OOM, I feel that spellpower/haste/spirit is ideally the only thing I should be gearing for, since crit offers virtually nothing to us. On fights where mana regen isn't an issue due to whatever(lack of damage to the raid, periods with no/little casting, etc) I've started innervating either one of our holy paladins to sustain Holy Light spam on our tanks, or one of our arcane mages to allow them to increase their DPS for a bit since they won't have to worry about mana as much in the time before their next available evocate.

I was playing around with CharDev.org a few days ago and came up with THIS as a near-optimal gear setup. A new haste/spirit staff is available from 25 man Blood Queen, although that wasn't available on CharDev as of the last time I had a chance to play with the character sheet. 4t10 is still obtainable without sacrificing much, since there are no haste/spirit helms or shoulders. Due to the lack of haste/spirit helms or shoulders(barring something on Arthas' loot table), going with the tier 10 pieces which both have crit/spirit gives us regen, some minor throughput on nourish/regrowth, and of course the 4t10 bonus, which still needs some real testing before we see just how useful it is. Just from the theorycrafting view I have of it now, I'm not a huge fan of it, but given the lack of haste/spirit alternatives it looks to be better than any alternatives.

Taringe · 01/21/10, 9:34 AM

Re: Restoration FAQ

It came up in another thread, but people new to druid healing will not necessarily know what 5x1 refers to. It isn't discussed in the first post on either the 3.3 Restoration or Itemization threads. The FAQ would be a good spot for new healers to (hopefully) find that information out.

For example:
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Q: What does "5x1" mean?
A: 5x1 refers to a rotation where you cast Wild Growth on cooldown (the 1) and fill in the time between casting Rejuvenations (the 5) on raid members. In a perfect situation you can cast 5 Rejuvenations between each Wild Growth. However, this rarely ever happens in practice, and will depend on your haste, latency and the damage profile of a particular fight.
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RagingRaven · 01/21/10, 9:42 AM

I have a small problem making a choice between nevermelting ice crystal and scale of fates.
I'm a demo lock and till yesterday I was using the both of them, but then I got muradin's spy glass (251).

I'm wondering which trinket i should swap for muradin's, from what I gathered in this topic it seems nevermelting looks better than scale, but I had the feeling I did better with scale.
Another thing is with scale i have a small amount of sp more (111 crystal vs 125 scale) and scale gives me haste where the icecrystal gives crit. Seeing as haste is better for demo, am I correct in assuming its better to go with muradin's and scale ?

Miki · 01/21/10, 9:48 AM

I have some troubles to decide what to do.

2 Weeks ago i got Brynntoll and it wasn't too expensive (dkp).

Vs Single Target the procc is about 3,5% of my totally damage and i assume, this is nice and does compensate the lack of stats on it!

Now i habe the chance to get Shadows's Edge if i'll invest about 20k gold and 200 emblems. But as already mentioned some posts ago, what doing with Brynntoll then?

My offhand is Ramaladni and i am at 90% Arp unbuffed.

Is it worth to get Shadow's Edge if i know, it won't be possible to get the upgrade to Shadowmourne; and then throw Brynntoll away!?

i am just thining some steps in future; possibility to get weapons from heroic in ICC10 and 25.

♦ Carebare · 01/21/10, 9:58 AM

I was just typing that but was busy removing the post that asked. Damn you. :P

Also I think we don't need to be that long-winded in the response. I had something more like "A: A sequence of casting 5 rejuvenations (on anyone) followed by 1 Wild Growth (on anyone), and then repeating it. This is not always possible to maintain under normal circumstances."

Either one works. I'd just like to lean toward keeping the FAQ answers short and easy to digest.

vivante · 01/21/10, 9:59 AM

Bryntroll is a bad fury weapon, go for Shadows Edge + Cryptmaker.

Eilt · 01/21/10, 10:11 AM

Q: I did all this and my DPS is still bad.
A: Make sure you pay attention to timing your spells so you don't waste time in between casts. Read the full guide (linked below). Realize that, given equal skill across your raid, the Moonkin can expect to be at or near the bottom of the DPS chart.

While I completely agree that when compared to equally geared/skilled DPS we may not be #1 on the list, we are quite capable of being rather competitive. Let me explain a bit more. Most fights have a couple of DPS that are well above the rest, there is some mechanic in the fight, or lack thereof that really just makes someone shine. Following this up there are the regular DPS, the "core pack" if you will, where most DPS is separated by a few hundred DPS at most. Lastly (excluding tanks/healers) we have the bottom of the food chain for people who are A. Not carrying their weight, B. Severely outgeared, or C. Just plain broken.

I certainly hope you are not trying to set expectations up for people to expect to be in category C above. There is absolutely no reason you can not be a perfectly normal "core pack" DPS and even work your way up to the top 3 occasionally (Like on Lady Deathwhisper, when those vile melee DPS have to deal with adds). Sure I may be biased but, I really don't think we are THAT bad off (in need of some slight tweaks to truly compete, for sure, but not bottom feeding yet), and I certainly would hate to see something like that in a general FAQ where a lot of people are going to be immediately turned off from the spec without giving it a fair chance.

If you want to take the time to mention don't expect to top the meters, I would be okay with, but it really sounds like you are expecting to see moonkins in category C and I am not feeling that is where we are as a spec. Now, all that said I don't want to turn this into a QQ fest or people coming in and arguing for one way or another, but at the very least I would imagine the General FAQ should at least attempt some manner of objectivity and leave out DPS meters.

♦ Carebare · 01/21/10, 10:16 AM

Eh, as it remains currently all things equal a Moonkin should be toward the bottom (elsewise your other DPS is failing). This is a pretty objective fact and would help to stave off the litany of "Here is my armory, I am at the bottom. Here is my WOL. What am I doing wrong?"

I would rather risk a few whine posts (easily slapped through moderation) than repeatedly infract the "Help me with my DPS" posts which are far more abundant.

Edit further to add:
It is my personal opinion that someone seeking help should get what they need. I really feel bad about infracting new people for what seems like a legitimate question to them. Whining is far more cut and dry. We don't want whiners here period, new or not -- I have 0 personal issue with slapping them around.

Acabar · 01/21/10, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Cerula

You're getting those errors because you have 2 items that aren't in the spreadsheet's database. Also ran into a bunch of bugs with loading a character...Ill try and fix all this by tomorrow.

Thats what I figured - I know practically nothing when it comes to making spread this complicated. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something else causing the errors.

Keep up the great work!

Dagmagi · 01/21/10, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Siduri

In theory yes, but as stated above a pure frost spec can never match FFB rotation (all the same frost bonuses to your blizzard plus LB and flamestrike), and it's probably a negligible increase in raid dps at the cost of significant loss of AoE dps from one of your strongest AoE classes on anub.

Plus i like tab -> living bomb spam. It makes my tank angry

edit: and if you run with a demo lock like my guild does, you have the 5% on the boss anyways with imp shadow bolt

Have you compared a frost mage blizzard vs LB/blizzard/flamestrike using [Nibelung] ?

lilixmorgan · 01/21/10, 11:34 AM

Pretty simple question; does anyone know what the proc rate is currently on the t10 2-set bonus?
I don't think I need to link gear, but just in case this helps at all. I'm trying to figure out how this 2-set is going to assist myself in raids.

Head [Thaumaturge's Crackling Cowl]
Neck [Darkbane Pendant]
Shoulders [Bloodmage Shoulderpads]
Chest [Merlin's Robe]
Wrist [Bejeweled Wizard's Bracers]
Hands [Khadgar's Gauntlets of Triumph]
Waist [Cord of the Patronizing Practitioner]
Legs [Khadgar's Leggings of Triumph]
Feet [Sandals of the Silver Magus]
Ring 1 [Band of the Invoker]
Ring 2 [Ashen Band of Greater Destruction]
Trinket 1 [Shard of the Crystal Heart]
Trinket 2 [Reign of the Unliving]
Weapon [Frost Needle]
Off-hand [Scourgelord's Baton]
Ranged [Brimstone Igniter]

Base Stats (No buffs)
Health 18k
Mana 24.7k
Bonus Damage 2884
Hit Rating 400
Crit Chance 25.00%
Haste Rating 748
Mana Regen 424

Talent Tree
Arcane 57/3/11

Glyphs
Glyph of Arcane Missiles
Glyph of Molten Armor
Glyph of Arcane Blast

Ayreal · 01/21/10, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by lilixmorgan

Pretty simple question; does anyone know what the proc rate is currently on the t10 2-set bonus?

It procs every time you use your Missile Barrage proc.

Voko · 01/21/10, 12:20 PM

Hello everyone. I've been lurking around this site for quite some time, and it has helped me loads of times. Now however I'm looking for something I can't find, so I thought I'd ask it here. Perhaps this is really for the Prot thread, but it's quite 'simple' so I'll post it here.

I was thinking about pvping some as a prot, what gear should I be going for and is there a top talent build for Prot PvP. I'm thinking about going with a rogue or feral druid in 2v2.

Edit: Talking about prot damage build, not healing.

Thanks alot
Voko

Strize · 01/21/10, 12:29 PM

My previous point was a food for thought question about stacking haste for uneclipsed starfire vs eclipsed wrath.

Another great possibility was brought up afterwards athat would fully complement it. The NO Insect swarm theory.

The benefit of iIS would be almost worthless(assuming you can get close enough to soft crit for starfires) if taking away 60% of wrath casts. Not using IS will improve uptime of NG at parts of the rotation when going from DoTs to starfires. Having extremely fast starfires would bring more starfires in place of IS GCDs over a fight then previously thought.

I've start working on a set of gear and math that will allow us to hit soft crit cap(or very close), hit cap and as much haste as possible.

We would still spec into IS(for during movement) but not IIS, in favor of something else. Typhoon for an extra instant cast during movement, gale winds for aoe, oone of the mana regen talents, or a combination.

Is this a good idea to look into, or am i missing something that will make this a waste of time? what do you guys think?

PS: Thinking this would even be a possibility is me hoping Blizzard gives us more boomkin friendly fights.

Faeravel · 01/21/10, 12:41 PM

I've been told that Black Magic is better than 63 SP for affliction at high end raiding, I cant find any evidence to support this and was wondering if anyone had anything that proved this or otherwise. I've found information saying 63 SP is better for Destro and I know it is for demo, but affliction seems to be lacking proof. Does anyone have any advice on this?