Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 908

rynny · 02/12/10, 10:18 AM

So on the last page someone commented that using 2p t9 and 2p t10 was more dps than 4p t10 up until the point you're wearing 4p 277. However, in browsing through the armory links of some of the posters, I'm seeing more and more people wearing 4p t10 (usually just 251) as marks. I thought SS crits were better than the 4p bonus?

Another thing is that I am seeing different gems in a lot of these character sheets. Some people gem for arp and some gem for agi. I thought for MM full arp was the way to go? I play survival currently since I do a lot of 10s without replenishment and haven't been able to spreadsheet a major dps increase from my current gear, even gemming for full arp. Is there a magic number where arp becomes better than agi? I know the OP mentions figures for runestone and grim toll, but what about [Needle-Encrusted Scorpion] or no arp proc trinket at all?

I'd like to go marks for 25m, but I can't bring myself to do it for a 50dps increase (in ideal conditions) when there are so many fights that movement is a factor in.

R00k!3 · 02/12/10, 10:45 AM

Hey Ho,

I got Deathbringer's will yesterday, furthermore I can choose between Death's Verdict (ilvl245) and Whispering Fanged Skull. The Spreadsheet calculates WFS slightly above DV, however I am not sure if this is the case in an average fight where I can not use every Proc to its full potential because of movement aso.
With that in mind I am not really sure if I want to lose ~250 AP for ~2,5% Crit. Unbuffed I would have arround ~4.7k Ap/1100Arp/~53%crit (without aspect) the AP part feels pretty low to me.

Any opinions?

Ramón · 02/12/10, 10:46 AM

Get more arp of course. I'd suggest you to get rid of your T9 helmet and legs at first, and try to choose your gear pieces more considerate, to avoid overcapping expertise and hit like that, thats a huge waste of stats.

Zliho · 02/12/10, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Mëlkor

My stats umbuffed

4805 Ap
335 hit
55.52% Armor penetrarion + 16% bonus from battle stance + 6% from T9 first bonus set
34.63% crit
45 expertise
1672 strength

If anyone can help me would be great since i want to push over 7k dps

I'd get the crafted ICC legs and t10 helm as 1st, continue dropping more expertise (for example changing cloak for the agi one from EoF) and trying to get the t10(2)set.
Keep hit at 263 or as close as possible.

Switch (back) your Ashen ring for the one with agi.

Change your meta gem to relentless and use 1 Nightmare Tear in a blue socket, don't use any purple or green color gems.

Finally, raise your Arp and crit (u may want to change all your STR to ARP).

Pijn · 02/12/10, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by rynny

So on the last page someone commented that using 2p t9 and 2p t10 was more dps than 4p t10 up until the point you're wearing 4p 277. However, in browsing through the armory links of some of the posters, I'm seeing more and more people wearing 4p t10 (usually just 251) as marks. I thought SS crits were better than the 4p bonus?

Another thing is that I am seeing different gems in a lot of these character sheets. Some people gem for arp and some gem for agi. I thought for MM full arp was the way to go? I play survival currently since I do a lot of 10s without replenishment and haven't been able to spreadsheet a major dps increase from my current gear, even gemming for full arp. Is there a magic number where arp becomes better than agi? I know the OP mentions figures for runestone and grim toll, but what about [Needle-Encrusted Scorpion] or no arp proc trinket at all?

I'd like to go marks for 25m, but I can't bring myself to do it for a 50dps increase (in ideal conditions) when there are so many fights that movement is a factor in.

Spreadsheet DPS is something you should take as a guide, always keeping common sense as the highest authority. The set bonuses are basically a trade-off; though we love 2t9, 4t10 ain't that bad really. Just like 2t10 it can be a highly RNG bonus, proccing all the time, or not at all. It's not just a matter of spreadsheet recommendations, it's a matter of personal preference as well. Consider fights like Deathwhisper, Saurfang, Putricide, Blood Council and Lich King (and to a lesser extent Valithria) where you often swap targets while your serpent sting is still ticking on a previous target (sometimes for a full duration since you just refreshed it with Chimera). With Serpent ticking on two targets now (the boss and the current kill target, the adds) you have an increased chance of 4t10 proccing; the spreadsheet doesn't model this.

As for ArP gems, the reason many hunters stay with agi gems even when the spreadsheet claims it's a dps increase to use ArP gems usually is flexibility. With Agi gems you can keep surv as your dual spec (which I personally need to have since I am the only Replen source for my 10 man team), plus ArP capped hunters only shine on fights where you can stand still for an extended duration (naturally we should always aspire to this). However, even on a fight where one can stand still for 100% of the time, ArP gemming only shows a small increase in dps (in my case; I gain 50 dps on a 11500 spreadsheet dps).

Lastly, there isn't a real magic number for when ArP starts to shine. It all depends on your current Agi/AP/crit values as well, since there is great synergy between these stats (even haste). If the spreadsheet says it's a dps increase, it's a dps increase (in theory, always consider the actual fights).

DeavanSH · 02/12/10, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by R00k!3

...
With that in mind I am not really sure if I want to lose ~250 AP for ~2,5% Crit. Unbuffed I would have arround ~4.7k Ap/1100Arp/~53%crit (without aspect) the AP part feels pretty low to me.

I just looked at your armory and of course you're in PvP gear. It doesn't matter so much what your AP is as much as how much damage you are doing. As for which trinket? What you can do is set up custom trinkets with no procs and see which is better of the AP from DV or the Crit from WFS. And remember the numbers from the spreadsheet is for perfect conditions, so DV could be better for some of the fights even though WFS is rated slightly better.

R00k!3 · 02/12/10, 11:29 AM

Ah good idea. Using femaledwarf (no excel atm) showed me that even not considering the proc, WFS is slightly better than DV (in my case ~12,9dps). I guess this has someting to do with Piercing Shots and ArP stacking...however thanks for your advice

ps: I am in my PvE gear now although I am still playing around with my gearsetup. It is the first time for me that i stack ArP because I was running with ArP procc trinkets since Naxx :>

granpachook · 02/12/10, 11:29 AM

Sorry for the new reply, I can't seem to edit posts from my phone. I think I understand it now, it means 'with talents or debuff' and 'with talents AND debuff'. It was just really confusing to me as someone who has never raided as a caster and is still trying to learn everything. Thanks.

Buffie · 02/12/10, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Hyperaktiv

Is there any possibility that ArP could weighs more than expertise, even when you are under the cap, considering the above statement?

According to the OP & every properly run sim posted in this thread, yes, yes it does.

Sambros · 02/12/10, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Snoody

I love all of the speculations in this thread, this is what makes moonkin worth playing - the community that are very dedicated.

As told in a previous post I don't use Insect Swarm, don't even have it specced. For some fights I would take a point ot of OWK to put it into IS, but usually I don't use it.

This sounds really instesting, i have been thinking some time also to remove IS but not seen so much other players that have done that.

If you have any fresh data on a run when you dont have IS i would like to see them

// Wise

JVerbit · 02/12/10, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by XxSlAgAtHooRxX

First off sorry if there's already something pertaining to this that I overlooked, if so just throw a link at me or tell me to look harder.

I was wondering if healing was possible with some kind of enhancement/resto spec, where you go down far enough to get DW, and dump the rest in resto, and DW heal. I was wondering if the benefit of having earthliving x2 or flametounge x2 or earthliving +flametounge would make up for the loss of some resto points.

One of the main problems I can think of right off the bat is finding a decent offhand weapon, since caster 1 handers are MH only.

Would love some feedback, thx
( typing this from phone sorry for any errors )

You would be looking at a 31 Enh/40 Resto talent split.

You'd have to get a few things in Enhancement that would not benefit healing (stuff beyond the 3rd tier of Enhancement) as well as miss things in resto that you would not be able to get (Nature's Swiftness, Earth Shield and Riptide being 3 bigs things). I doubt I'd even wish to do this if I was the only raiding shaman and people wanted Enh buffed totems.

Even if I had 2 600+ SP daggers (MH and OH), I don' think I'd try or recommend it unless you only chain heal your raid without gaining Riptide or Ancestrial Spirit. If I were going to try it, this would probably the the spec I'd use.

EL x2 or FT x2 or EL/FT I cannot comment on since I've never thought of dual wield healing.

NoIdea · 02/12/10, 1:43 PM

I been told and on FAQ it say, for Multilate spec High Dps dagger on MH and Faster one on OH.
But how come on the Multilate Spreadsheet LungBreaker is recommended to go MH and Rib Spreader is on OH ??

It contradicting everything I have been told.. I'm So Lost.

Im Currently Have Rib Spreader and HeartPiece and Stygian Blade Breaker.
Im Planning to Have Rib Spread on MH as FAQ advised.
And Either HeartPiece Or Blade Breaker on OH. Heart Piece seems to be bettter choice on OH than BB which is Slower Weapon but lower DPS Blade Breaker?
Spreadsheet is very confusing here.
Can Anyone tell me which hands are best for which ? And if Heart Piece or Blade Breaker?

alicefashiongirl · 02/12/10, 2:02 PM

I've been doing some simulations with the latest Warlock DPS Spreadsheet and found that I got more benefit from [Extract of Necromantic Power] than from [Illustration of the Dragon Soul].

With a few more badges, I could easily replace this with [Talisman of Resurgence]

However, it seems to me that the best course of action is to continue raiding until I get enough frost badges for [Maghia's Misguided Quill] or some other better trinket drops.

With the rarity of trinkets these days, what is my best course of action?

Seerow · 02/12/10, 2:19 PM

Okay so I've lurked around this forum for a while now, finally decided to register. My main is a Pally Tank, so the decisions are more or less cut and dry, there wasn't much need to post here.

That said I finally got my warrior alt to 80 and have started gearing him, and have been using this thread (and other threads in this forum) as a resource, and want to thank you guys for the effort you put into this. I do want to ask a few questions though

1) I have no real interest in arms dps or tanking (as my main is already a tank). However I have been considering dual speccing fury/fury, with one fury set up more leaning towards single target dps (heroic strike talented/glyphed and maybe more emphasis on rend rather than the typical dump points in parry, using a macro like described in the last few posts), with the other having cleave talented/gyphed, and maybe even set up a macro to swap into battle stance and drop a thunderclap every now and then for the larger aoes.

My question on this is how effective of a setup would this be, and would it be worth the effort/money to do this? Or should I just avoid dual talent spec?

2) I've seen talk about ArP softcap vs hardcap. I realize the hardcap is 100%, what is considered softcapped though? Is it 80% and you're expected to put up sunder armor, or is it based on an ArP trinket proc and you let the proc get you to 100%? Or is there a point where diminishing returns kicks in and its harder to get the rest? I'm curious here because I looked through wiki and didn't see much regarding this, and was wondering what I should be shooting for.

Thanks in advance for the help.

alicefashiongirl · 02/12/10, 2:33 PM

What would be the best course of action in a fight with a lot of adds, say, Jaraxxus in ToC25- refresh dots on the boss while your dots tick on the add, and then hit the add again, or ignore the boss dots until you kill the add?

In the interest of helping the raid I always focus on killing the add first, and then get my rotation started all over on the boss - what would you do?