Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 924

vschiano2008 · 02/18/10, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Aranthdor

Simple Question: How definitive is Landsoul's spreadsheet? I'm currently "soft ArP capped" and when I go to two AP/Str trinkets and gem all ArP I get a DPS decrease (according to the spreadsheet). Is this absolutely correct? Once my gear starts improving more and more and I can input two Str/AP trinkets, go all ArP gems, and get a DPS increase (according to the spreadsheet) over my "soft cap", will that be absolutely correct?

Does anyone know the passive ArP % required to make it superior to the soft cap off the top of their head?

While I can't answer all of your question, I came here with a similar question. According to some manual input into Landsoul's Spreadsheet (Note, I was doing this as Fury), I attempted to come up with number where ArP becomes the strongest stat based on Strength Equivalency Points. The number I came up with was 1158 ArP, which was 85.6%. This gave ArP a value of 1.0005 SEP, roundabout. I noted that in my current gear, which I had been gemming ArP mindlessly as Arms, Strength was far superior. (a SEP Value for ArP of ~0.86)

I would like to include that this assumes hit cap as well as expertise cap (the numbers I used where for exact caps).

I came here looking for a comfirmation, as the spreadsheet shows significant increase in DPS were I to re-gem entirely for Strength. It is my offspec, and I can't say i've DPS'ed anything exclude VOA and Naxx raid weeklies.

First post from a 2+ year lurker, i've almost been afraid to post meaningless jumble, but I see the question all the time - "How much ArP should I have before I gem for it?!"

Finally, this is not the cap for ArP and as I increased the ArP on the spreadsheet while still under cap, the SEP value of ArP continued to increase.

Xiphid · 02/18/10, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Furism

That's what I figured. Now what about dropping MB without 4PT10 during hero/lust?

This is answered many times throughout this thread and shadowpriest.com

In short, MF > MB during most +haste effects.

Ran Newman · 02/18/10, 12:14 PM

You can't try to set a value of ArP rating at which everyone should start gemming ArP. It have to do with other stats and trying to generalise it will lead to bad decisions more often then not.

vschiano2008 · 02/18/10, 12:35 PM

I agree, I didn't say "this is when you should gem ArP". I gave it a comparison to a commonly used index. What other stats should be taken into consideration besides hit/exp capping? Are you referring to strength scaling? I'll go back to not posting, thanks.

Blues · 02/18/10, 12:39 PM

Ignore this, I think these questions would be better suited in the general Mage thread.

deathplague · 02/18/10, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by furcio

Lich King 25
Encounter difficulty: Hard
Spec: 56/0/15
Impressions: Affi is strong aoe spec and it seems to be best for this fight imo. P1 SoC ghouls and tap/dot LK/big add between respawns. Teleport positioning, P1 - inside to teleport out of the edge, P2 between middle and throne to teleport once you get Defile so others don't have to move and it's the only direction where Valkyrs won't fly. Keep dots on LK while dealing with remaining Enraged Spirit and Valkyrs. This spec is also really good for P3 to aoe Vile spirits that fly in the air.
Disadventages: If played properly none except Valkyrs once they get out of aoe range, then direct dmg would be better.

Why would you even bother to aoe the ghouls besides to inflate your own dms? You should let necrotic plague kill them so it builds up and kills the larger adds more quickly as well.

Useless · 02/18/10, 12:47 PM

Wouldn't the point of diminishing returns for blood DKs in 25 mans be 990~ rating, or 70%? Between sunder (20%) + blood gorged (10%) and 990 rating (70%), that would be 100% AR ignored.

Am i missing something? Do these stack in a non-linear manner?

Blues · 02/18/10, 1:19 PM

So excuse the idiocy of the following questions, but my server really lacks when it comes to Arcane Mages and I have some pretty basic questions that I've got a lot of conflicting opinions on the matters.

When doing my gems, should I be gemming for the socket bonuses? I've noticed some endgame Arcane Mages on my server go straight Spellpower but on the other hand some gem for some Spellpower + Haste/Spirit to grab the bonus. I'm unsure from a min/maxing standpoint what's best and I could really use the input.

Also, is there a soft cap for the haste bonus on the Fetish of Volatile Power? It seems like I'm not getting the same haste% consistently like I was back in ToGC days.

furcio · 02/18/10, 1:36 PM

We don't bring necrotic plague to ghoulds, we bring it directly to big add and just kill ghouls. If it's better to try as you say, maybe we shall try it. But that's how we killed him.

pelux · 02/18/10, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by deathplague

Why would you even bother to aoe the ghouls besides to inflate your own dms? You should let necrotic plague kill them so it builds up and kills the larger adds more quickly as well.

On more than one occasion I've had a SoC detonation interfere with the add tank trying to get ghouls on him to keep the plague rolling. SoC in this phase really is just meter padding with a small but significant risk.

Mindaika · 02/18/10, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by Useless

Wouldn't the point of diminishing returns for blood DKs in 25 mans be 990~ rating, or 70%? Between sunder (20%) + blood gorged (10%) and 990 rating (70%), that would be 100% AR ignored.

Am i missing something? Do these stack in a non-linear manner?

If ArP is additive (which I'm not 100% certain), then the cap should be lower since IFF/CoW (5% ArP) should be in there too.

willem11 · 02/18/10, 1:57 PM

Originally Posted by Blues

So excuse the idiocy of the following questions, but my server really lacks when it comes to Arcane Mages and I have some pretty basic questions that I've got a lot of conflicting opinions on the matters.

When doing my gems, should I be gemming for the socket bonuses? I've noticed some endgame Arcane Mages on my server go straight Spellpower but on the other hand some gem for some Spellpower + Haste/Spirit to grab the bonus. I'm unsure from a min/maxing standpoint what's best and I could really use the input.

Also, is there a soft cap for the haste bonus on the Fetish of Volatile Power? It seems like I'm not getting the same haste% consistently like I was back in ToGC days.

On the subject of socket bonuses, it mostly depends if your using the 2t9 set bonus. Ifnot, its usually better to gem pure spellpower in the low socketbonus (+5spellpower) sockets. Apart from this always gem for socket bonus.

If you want to know for sure, put your gear in rawr and see the outcome.

Morwen · 02/18/10, 2:15 PM

Originally Posted by furcio

Disadventages: If played properly none except Valkyrs once they get out of aoe range, then direct dmg would be better.

As long as you are getting the Valkyrs to fly in the same direction you can mostly just seed until they die, since 3x or even 2x seed explosion is better dps than shadow bolting.

BraveDemon · 02/18/10, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by Useless

Wouldn't the point of diminishing returns for blood DKs in 25 mans be 990~ rating, or 70%? Between sunder (20%) + blood gorged (10%) and 990 rating (70%), that would be 100% AR ignored.

Am i missing something? Do these stack in a non-linear manner?

No. Reduced Armor from Debuffs != Ar Pen Rating.

If my understanding is correct, Ar Pen Rating will reduce the amount of armor remaining on the boss after debuffs (IFF, Sunders, CoW, Etc), up to a maximum of 7600ish armor. The only time you will be able to completely ignore a raid bosses armor is when all debuffs + Shattering throw is up.

Thus hitting the arp cap at 1260 (Bloodgorged adds directly to your personal Ar Pen rating) is what the competitive Blood Dk's seem to be going for.

Useless · 02/18/10, 2:22 PM

If they are additive (i would assume so, but I don't know either for sure), then I would presume the threshold for gemming ARP would be much lower in terms of gearing or base arp rating then has otherwise been suggested.

I ran some sims, and found arp gemming was beneficial for me according to kahorie's in a mix of 251/264 gear. So far, a very limited test has borne out those results.

I found gemming str I was doing 1k more dps in the gear I had as UH then blood. From a very limited (n=1 heh) test of regemming arp, I found blood to be doing equal if not better damage than UH. Drawing any conclusions from n=1 is dumb, however, it may bear further testing to determine the levels at which gemming arp becomes superior in practice, not just in sims.