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02/26/10, 8:34 PM
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#14236
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Glass Joe
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Unholy Tanking
I suppose I'll chime in here, since I have been an unholy tank for a long time.
While it's true that unholy has lower single-target threat, I've never had a problem with dps pulling off me. Lower single-target threat does not mean that unholy tanking is non-viable: if you out-threat the dps, then there is no difference between out-threating them by 500 or 5000 TPS, because the result is the same (you hold agro on the boss).
I've also had very few survival issues where I wish I was a Blood tank, although this might change once we start into the ICC hard modes. Bone shield's passive 20% damage reduction is stellar for OTing, and is effective for known incoming big-hit damage reduction. The passive 6% magic damage reduction from Magic Suppression is also nice, and my AMZ can absorb 18k damage before popping. Considering the amount of magic damage flying around in ICC, I've found all my unholy survival 'buttons' to be useful. I haven't yet been in a situation where the extra 1k health from being blood would have been make or break, or where WotN would have saved the raid.
Finally, my DnD hits hard enough that I never have to worry about aoe threat, which is an area that I gather blood tanks do occasionally have to worry about.
Of course, EP is the real reason to be an unholy tank, even for me, because it means that we don't have to worry if there's another unholy DK in the raid or not.
At this point in my game, being any spec of tank would ultimately be a matter of personal preference and play-style, and not a matter of survival or threat.
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02/26/10, 9:42 PM
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#14237
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LF sun
Blood Elf Death Knight
Anub'arak (EU)
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The SS change was a 0.7% DPS buff, Consider simmed Frost subspec at 50 dps higher than Blood subspec. Frost won't have Reaping, so the SS buff will be even less pronounced. Overall it's probably around 100 DPS if you're doing 10k DPS now.
AoE DPS and DPS on non-static fights will increase significantly more, though, since pet and spell damage profits a lot from a change to Frost subspec. However, the loss of Subversion certainly won't make AoE damage easier.
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Originally Posted by Frozn
You can be sure that I will never post something anymore. Your arrogance and snobism makes me feel sick, enjoy your idiot infractions. Your community just lost one of the best moonkin of the alliance (gearscore).
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02/27/10, 12:14 AM
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#14238
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Bald Bull
Human Paladin
Darksorrow (EU)
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Originally Posted by Star McCloud
I know about spreadsheets and rawr and all that, but I'd prefer raw numbers that I can do myself. For example, 1 STR = 2.3 attack power (like 2.52 attack power with kings on). Thanks for any help!
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There's a huge difference between the two. Strength converts to attack power and attack power is what increases your damage done. Haste is a completely different stat and its value depends on your other stats. Dumbed down, you can think of stats as getting better the more of other stats you have. A very much simplified example is crit chance and attack power. For an attack power that makes your white hits do 5000 damage, an extra 1% crit would increase your damage by 50 (51.5 with CSD). If your attack power made your swings hit for 6000, 1% crit would give you 60 (61.8 with CSD).
This is why equivalence points and similar scales are given for certain gearsets and aren't entirely accurate even then. The best way to find such a scale would be to load up rawr with your gear and use the number it provides, but as its warning says, those numbers are only valid for the gear you have on at the moment, changing it will affect the relative values of stats.
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02/27/10, 1:45 AM
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#14239
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Glass Joe
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...
Last edited by Malevolence : 03/01/10 at 12:35 AM.
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02/27/10, 4:19 AM
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#14240
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Glass Joe
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Belt Question.... Why was the Coldwraith Links belt replaced by the Vengeful Noose??
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02/27/10, 5:25 AM
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#14241
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Blood Elf Paladin
Shadowsong (EU)
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Simple Question which I can't seem to find a simple answer to, so I'm asking here:
Just hit 80 on my warlock and have been reading the fantastic 'dots and you' thread. Just unclear on one point
Assuming there is no similar buff in the raid, is it better to use CoA or CoE? apologies if it's a daft question but it's been bugging me 
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02/27/10, 5:47 AM
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#14242
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Bloodfeather (EU)
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Originally Posted by rpeads
Belt Question.... Why was the Coldwraith Links belt replaced by the Vengeful Noose??
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This question has already been answered several times before on the previous pages. I suggest you read that, and you'll surely find your answer. 
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02/27/10, 7:29 AM
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#14244
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Moonglade (EU)
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Ahhah, aye i've been poking arround a bit, seems the only way to get a larger heal is more HP *Shrug*
However, this brings me onto another point. Not sure if it's already been coverred, but itemization for ICC?
Seeing with the 20% drop in dodge, are we going to try and make that up or ignore it and invest elsewhere?
As far as I am aware, Blizzard implemented the dodge nerf due to tanks taking far to little damage, they then tried to increase boss damage so when they did hit it was substantial, but then yhe problem came with diminishing returns and tanks would get "1 shot" - Like in ToC 25 heroic, we had this problem on Gormok in particular.
Seeing as alot of the ICC gear has bonus armour on it, I'm wanderring if we should start gearing arround soaking damage than avoiding it.
I also see a large drop in the ammount of block on ICC gear, which puts our parry as our highest avoidance stat *Cringe*
I've also taken a disslike to the set bonuses, the 2 set is great threat, the 4 set however doesn;t seem to have a logn enough duration to catch my interest, I can only see it stacking up your diminishing returns on dodge, then dropping you in the deep end - that and it only lasts for about 4 swings. the general loss in stats for taking the tier set over the 251/264 ICC gear and emblem rewards seems to much to bother with.
Am I just being silly? How are you gearing at the moment?
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02/27/10, 8:14 AM
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#14245
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Sarvius
As HAT was never PvE viable, I think we can safely assume it will not be a dominant spec any time soon.
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Never? I thought one of the rogue who hit over 10k dps on Algalon precisely used a non-dagger HAT spec, spamming endless Evis. The spec was so powerful Blizz had to put a nerf on the combo-gain of HAT.
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02/27/10, 8:43 AM
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#14246
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Blood Elf Death Knight
Andorhal
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I have a death knight but rarely find myself playing him nowadays. I liked the class alot, and would happily consider it my main; I just couldn't tank correctly. I tried everything imaginable but I couldn't find a way to get guys to stick to me. My major problem was aoe, but really, it's all traced back to the rune system IMHO. Paladins don't have to worry about their Consecrates taking up half their mana pool, but Death and Decay used 1 of each rune. Once it's down, I can use my last 3 runes on IT/PS/Pest or HB/BB. The entire rotation, including the initial DnD, takes a good 5-6 heart-pounding seconds in my experience. By the time it's all out, someone (and hopefully only one person if I'm lucky) has already pulled from me, so unless I have rune strike up, I'm properly fucked for the next 10 seconds until my runes are back up. Dark Command would work, but taunts shouldn't really be such a fundamental part of your rotation IMO. Aside from that, once everyone's pulling from my piss poor AoE Threat, the whole mob is so clusterfucky and all over the place it gets incredibly hard to manage.
So the way I look at it, as a DK tank, I get hardly 4 or 5 attacks every 10 seconds, whereas Warriors and Paladins and even Druids really have exceptional snap aggro and cleaves. Has anyone every encountered a problem with this kind of limitation? I'm hoping that I can stack haste in cata, and hopefully find this class actually useful as a tank!
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02/27/10, 9:40 AM
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#14247
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Glass Joe
Troll Rogue
Lightbringer (EU)
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My recommendation about the keybinding stuff, buy this: N52TE
sidenote: you can remove the joystick-ish poke to turn that part into a arrowpad like that of an oldskool console controller if ye don't like the poke.
Use that part to walk so only 1 finger (your thumb) will be busy at most with moving, leaving 4 fingers left to focus on the 14 other buttons.
No more keybinding nightmares. Took me 2 days and then i was fully used to walking with only my thumb.
As for my own UI:

Last edited by grimmeld : 02/27/10 at 9:45 AM.
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02/27/10, 11:02 AM
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#14248
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Paladin
Emeriss (EU)
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Originally Posted by Icefae
So the way I look at it, as a DK tank, I get hardly 4 or 5 attacks every 10 seconds, whereas Warriors and Paladins and even Druids really have exceptional snap aggro and cleaves. Has anyone every encountered a problem with this kind of limitation? I'm hoping that I can stack haste in cata, and hopefully find this class actually useful as a tank!
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If you're looking for snap aggro you might want to dig into the frost tree. I take it you're talking about trash or packs of mobs? Howling blast (glyphed if perferred) is great for that.
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02/27/10, 11:04 AM
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#14249
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Blood Elf Death Knight
Black Dragonflight
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Anyone want to tell me the key on how to pull 7k dps and keep it there in a 10m raid for ICC
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02/27/10, 11:28 AM
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#14250
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Samlish
Simple Question which I can't seem to find a simple answer to, so I'm asking here:
Just hit 80 on my warlock and have been reading the fantastic 'dots and you' thread. Just unclear on one point
Assuming there is no similar buff in the raid, is it better to use CoA or CoE? apologies if it's a daft question but it's been bugging me 
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If you check SimulationCraft thread, you'll see CoA is just about 4.9% of affliction warlock's dps. So even if you are the only caster dps in your raid/party, you should use CoE.
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