Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 957

Light4 · 03/02/10, 4:51 AM

You might not make full use of your haste by not casting fast enough (check the addon dpstime or logs). When comparing dps only, make sure you use statistically relevant sample sizes, since proc luck (or the lack thereof) can tip the balance quite a bit. If you compare total damage done, it's pretty obvious he does more damage than you, because you run oom faster. The point is, you won't in a raid environment, where both of you will not run oom and you will have done more damage due to faster casts. A Crit-based spec cannot outweigh this due to the horrible crit scaling of arcane and the higher cost for 1% crit compared to haste.

Dihz · 03/02/10, 6:56 AM

Hi guys...

i need some help...

im starting using spreadsheet and it says my DPS metric is about 6700 ...
but when im fighting against a boss i cant reach more than 3500 dps ...
what am i doing wrong ?
i dont know if its correct but i follow this rotation:

WW - BT - Slam on bloodsurge proc and HS (rage above 60)

please someone help me ..

thanks..

innez · 03/02/10, 7:49 AM

One thing really makes me scary when I read about incoming changes in stats on gear:

If you are a melee DPS class, druid tank, or hunter, expect to see:
A lot more Stamina. Bear-form Stamina scaling will be lowered as a result.
Strength if you wear plate. Agility if you wear mail or leather.
Existing Attack Power becomes Agility and Stamina.Armor Penetration becomes Haste or Crit.
No Intellect on melee gear. Hunters won’t need Intellect since they will no longer use mana. Shaman and Retribution paladins will get mana and spell damage in other ways.

and

What You’ll See on Gear

(...)

Strength, Agility, Hit Rating, Expertise, and Critical Strike Rating - These will all still appear on gear as well. Aside from situations mentioned elsewhere in this list, in general these will function similarly to how they do now, though the details -- such as how much Hit Rating you might need to effectively combat high-level creatures (more on this below) -- are likely to change.

Being Removed from Items

Attack Power - This stat will no longer be present on most items as a flat value, though it will still show up on some process. Strength and Agility, which will be present on items, will grant the appropriate amount of Attack Power (generally 2 Attack Power per point of Strength or Agility) depending upon which stat a particular class favors. Agility may provide less Crit than it currently does.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that weapons that we currently use and will use in the future after they have been reworked will NOT provide us any bonus to Attack Power.

I was wondering how it could be solved (if Blizz ever thought about solving it). Solutions that came to my mind are:

- release of slow 1h weapons with STR - unlikely to see this and what about weapons currently owned by players?,
- bonus will be presented like it is on Greatness proc or Death Verdict proc - highest stat taken - but what about crit from agi then?
- tokens for weapons?

Hakaboy18 · 03/02/10, 8:30 AM

Hey Guys,

Today I was looking at my gear and trying to find ways to reach the soft haste cap, currently around 1100. I saw on another resto shams armory page that he had the elemental totem equipped, wild right? Well it seems that the 44 haste procced by our FS dot(stacksx5) would be applicaple in healing as the 245 Ele totem is not. Would having to cast a FS reduce our effective healing more than the gain of 200+ haste? Obviously in terms of mana it wouldnt be effective but for shamans still under soft haste cap is this a viable option?

Coldfeet · 03/02/10, 9:01 AM

Originally Posted by innez

- bonus will be presented like it is on Greatness proc or Death Verdict proc - highest stat taken - but what about crit from agi then?

Was thinking about that myself a while ago.

I was wondering if anyone could remember what they said at Blizzcon, I was sure they said Str classes will gain nothing from Agi and visa-versa?

turgor · 03/02/10, 9:07 AM

I have a question on expertise. How does the stat weight change for being above and below cap? Given that the stat weight is < 2, why would it ever be worth giving up ArP/Crit to obtain any expertise at all, even below cap?

Greenpower · 03/02/10, 9:07 AM

I'm an experienced druid healer in a decent guild, and just leveled my pally to 80 3 days ago. I was amazed how easy it was lol. Started healing heroics with like 15k mana, 12k sp, and had no issues. HL is so strong I just nuked that and melee'd to not run out. I'm already to 4 pc t9 with the 2 int trinkets however, and am extremely interested in this whole weapon speed discussion. (yes I just read the thread beginning to end lol)

Sounds like its definitely worth having a fast enough weapon to swing after each instant for fights you can be close to a boss, and as slow as possible for fights you can't. Moreso for a FOL spec as using HS on cd is more useful stacking sp. Since this has potential to effect our regen in such a strong way, which is clearly of utmost importance better modeling this and taking it into effect for BIS weapons seems appropriate. It seems to me taking even a substantial stat loss for a better weapon speed for the specific encounter could be worth it.

The end worth of weapon speed is clearly a function of how many instants you use in a fight, and how much mana you get on average per melee swing. Which scales off total mana pool. Could we model approx what % of mana you get from each melee swing assuming SOW & JOL? Not quite sure on the proc rate, per swing (not per minute) of either of them. I know the proc rate changes based on weapon speed but we could probably use 1.8 speed as a baseline (according to the table there, thanks Harmann) as most pallys gear to at least 670 haste, and not many weapons are 1.9 even if you gear to 800+.

Mitranim · 03/02/10, 9:11 AM

To the above posters: I think you are incorrect in an assumption that you need attack power on weapons. Agility is still a beneficial stat, as it provides melee crit rating.

There isn't any problem with weapons nor any solution is needed. Frost DW will utilise agility weapons and be fine with that.

jimme · 03/02/10, 9:14 AM

If I have a question about my priest and my problems with bartender when in shadowform am I then allowed to ask it here?

innez · 03/02/10, 9:52 AM

You mean that it is totally OK that frost is going to be the only spec in the game which will have 0 increase of result AP (the one on char page) from weapons worn? Now it's, roughly said, 200-250 AP less in comparison with 2h weapons without taking in consideration various procs or multipliers. The difference will only grow to 400-500 AP. Is frost in such good condition that this amount of AP is not needed?

Kaejin · 03/02/10, 9:56 AM

We were literally just talking about this near the top of the page. You're talking about a problem that doesn't even exist yet.

nhlkdog411 · 03/02/10, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Kaejin

We were literally just talking about this near the top of the page. You're talking about a problem that doesn't even exist yet.

This. There's tons to be excited about with 3.3.3 frost (at least assuming they keep it as is), whats the point in worrying about possible problems that may exist months from now that Blizz doubtless is aware of. I may be an optimist but I'm gonna spend my time thinking about how awesome its gonna be in a few short weeks, finally letting me go back to my favorite spec; my guild has an enhance so there's no point in me gimping my dps right now as frost.

grunz · 03/02/10, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Greenpower

The end worth of weapon speed is clearly a function of how many instants you use in a fight, and how much mana you get on average per melee swing. Which scales off total mana pool. Could we model approx what % of mana you get from each melee swing assuming SOW & JOL? Not quite sure on the proc rate, per swing (not per minute) of either of them. I know the proc rate changes based on weapon speed but we could probably use 1.8 speed as a baseline (according to the table there, thanks Harmann) as most pallys gear to at least 670 haste, and not many weapons are 1.9 even if you gear to 800+.

The vast majority of the fights where mana becomes a concern (read: hard modes) don't provide paladins an opportunity to melee because they shouldn't be near the boss. Modeling your mana return on a very shaky presumption (that you will be in range to melee) is dangerous.

Soshika · 03/02/10, 10:49 AM

Even if blizzard doesn't do anything about frost and agility weapons you can just reforge the agility to strength, it's sub optimal but better than nothing. It may even result in better stat increases than frost gets from weapons now.

Krellin · 03/02/10, 10:58 AM

For PvP'ing as Enhancement, which stat is better to gem for? Haste or Attack Power?