Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 964

Koshka · 03/04/10, 10:07 AM

I'm a long time reader first time poster and this question might be answered somewhere else but I haven't been able to find it.

I have the worst luck ever on main hands and am currently using [Frost Giant's Cleaver](iLvL 251 version). I was wondering if [Wrathful Gladiator's Cleaver] would be an upgrade for me or whether the 62 agil loss is too much of a hit compared to the damage gain. The item is not listed in the spreadsheet and I don't want to spend my arena points if this is not going to be an upgrade.

Hopefully someone has some feedback on this.

Thank you

afflic · 03/04/10, 10:12 AM

Hey guys, just a quick question about weapons. I currently have a ilvl 277 Nibelung. I was wondering if it is worth it to change it out for a 264 MH/OH combo, or should I wait for either the Arthas 271 MH, or any hardmode MH?

Thanks.

Special K 554 · 03/04/10, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Koshka

I'm a long time reader first time poster and this question might be answered somewhere else but I haven't been able to find it.

I have the worst luck ever on main hands and am currently using [Frost Giant's Cleaver](iLvL 251 version). I was wondering if [Wrathful Gladiator's Cleaver] would be an upgrade for me or whether the 62 agil loss is too much of a hit compared to the damage gain. The item is not listed in the spreadsheet and I don't want to spend my arena points if this is not going to be an upgrade.

Hopefully someone has some feedback on this.

Thank you

The best way to figure that out would be to pull up your spreadsheet, input your current gear to get approximate EP values, and mark down what you gain/loss on the weapon swap.

Saralik09 · 03/04/10, 12:22 PM

I have a Prot/Ret pally and I am curiousto the ret paly dps. I have been gemming for strength thou my dps lacks to some other pallys i have seen. Any tips on how to make paladin dps higher? Also a friend of mine did this and it boggles me..Thou he said he founda thread on here which I have not but saying paladins should use agility? Is there and reason why a ret paladin should use agility over strength?

cyp · 03/04/10, 12:36 PM

Apologies for interjecting on all the math, but I've got 2 questions:
1. Disease twisting. Is it beneficial dps wise to refresh diseases before they've ran out? When I finish the 2nd part of the rotation (14/57 spec) I find myself in a situation where I have 3-4 seconds left on both diseases and new unholy/frost runes are ready. Is it better to let them tick or to refresh them so I can get Scourge Strikes in faster? I assume it'll be better to let them tick in 3.3.3 with the sub frost spec, but what about now?

2. The value of Bryntroll in 3.3.3. Will it be comparable dps wise to, let's say, Shadowmourne with the frost sub spec?

Cheers and thanks in advance for the answers.

Opioid · 03/04/10, 12:42 PM

The article should be updated by December 31, 2008.

LMAO

Asphyxialol · 03/04/10, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by cyp

Apologies for interjecting on all the math, but I've got 2 questions:
1. Disease twisting. Is it beneficial dps wise to refresh diseases before they've ran out? When I finish the 2nd part of the rotation (14/57 spec) I find myself in a situation where I have 3-4 seconds left on both diseases and new unholy/frost runes are ready. Is it better to let them tick or to refresh them so I can get Scourge Strikes in faster? I assume it'll be better to let them tick in 3.3.3 with the sub frost spec, but what about now?

2. The value of Bryntroll in 3.3.3. Will it be comparable dps wise to, let's say, Shadowmourne with the frost sub spec?

Cheers and thanks in advance for the answers.

1 - Disease twisting allows you to generally always have a key to press (so you aren't sitting idle) and it grants you 1 extra disease tick every 21 seconds over a standard rotation where you cut your diseases off (most likely). This results in 1400 more damage over 21 seconds which is a 66.67 dps increase. However, I have noticed with either lag, higher latency, or low haste that you are able to create an adequate rotation where both diseases fall off and are reapplied in less than .5s (yay for playing on Mal'Ganis during prime time).

2 - Long story short: No. Bryntroll, even with the increased haste and hitting power from Black Ice, it will not compete with even Cryptmaker (figuring at least about 15-20 hit is used towards melee hit), much less Glorenzelg or Shadowmourne. Will that mean it's far behind? Well if you're asking about Shadowmourne or Glorenzelg, then yes, it is far behind. If you're comparing it to Cryptmaker, then it depends on how much hit of Cryptmaker is going towards melee hit rating (and spell hit). Even if only about 10-20 hit goes towards melee hit rating, you'll see better parses (save RNG with Bryntroll, as I've seen some 14-15% proc rates in parses) with Cryptmaker.

Aoime · 03/04/10, 1:37 PM

I know this topic of question has been beaten like a dead horse, but I need to go ahead and ask it.

I dropped a ton of dkp a couple weeks ago on Cryptmaker because it allowed me to start switching out some hit gear for some with expertise which I was lacking (still in the process of doing so).

Come 3.3.3, will Bryntroll become that much of a better weapon that I may want to consider going for it over my Cryptmaker?

Please note, I'm not in a hard core raiding guild. Heroic 25man weaps are out of the question. Shadow's Edge might become a possibility some day. lol

nzo · 03/04/10, 2:10 PM

It's upsetting that you guys only needed to look one page back...

Originally Posted by Consider

Not quite. The fact that it only procs off of Auto-attacks, SS physical, BS, and PS remains true, yes. The fact that the proc chance is 2 ppm (11.33%) remains true, yes. But the line at the end of that post - that heroic Bryntroll is inferior to heroic Cryptmaker and normal Bryntroll is inferior to normal Shadow's Edge and normal Cryptmaker may or may not still hold - and preliminary math is showing it doesn't.

Due to sub-speccing into Frost, Bryntroll gets a large boost. 20% more auto-attacks translates into about 5 more proc opportunities per minute. As well, since we (once again) won't be taking Reaping, that's an additional 3 proc opportunities per minute. Black Ice is pretty straight-forward in how it affects it: 10% more proc damage.

All in all, the weapon gets a modest boost, and at current gear levels, Bryntroll will pull ahead. In BiS, heroic Cryptmaker would win, but that's rather irrelevant due to the fact that for BiS heroic Glorenzelg (and, obviously, Shadowmourne) is going to beat both handily (due to raw ilvl and weapon dps, everything else aside).

When I have the time, I'll throw up the 3.3.3 BiS lists/stat weights/etc, but it's not a huge priority as little enough changes.

Exemplar · 03/04/10, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by Saralik09

I have a Prot/Ret pally and I am curiousto the ret paly dps. I have been gemming for strength thou my dps lacks to some other pallys i have seen. Any tips on how to make paladin dps higher? Also a friend of mine did this and it boggles me..Thou he said he founda thread on here which I have not but saying paladins should use agility? Is there and reason why a ret paladin should use agility over strength?

Do not gem or explicitly seek Agility. Some leather (or mail) items can be superior to plate simply because Agi (= Crit) + Crit + AP is in sufficient quantity to be greater than Str (= AP) + Crit. An example is the Ashen Verdict rep ring - the Agi version is superior to the Str version.

Hit cap, gem Str. Get Expertise on gear.

If you are gearing properly, the greatest increase to DPS is proper priority as fast as possible. Make sure you are using the optimal priority of abilities (unlike Prot it's not a fairly regular sequence, always hit the highest priority when it is off cooldown). A mod like clcret (look for the FCFS thread in the paladin forum, here) will help ensure you hit the best ability when there is any possibility of question. Beyond that, spam your buttons. The faster you can use things (equivalent to the least time between using two abilities) is a great factor in DPS.

A superior geared Ret with very high latency can do less DPS than an okay geared Ret with very low latency. 90% is really about how fast you can hit the best buttons. The final 10% is cooldown/proc management and the like.

Exalteduser · 03/04/10, 2:36 PM

Originally Posted by Reeshet

Latest patch notes (2010-02-25 09:04:20):

Life Tap: This spell no longer scales with spirit, and instead scales with spell power.

It's a wonderful thing, I was getting tired of life tapping 37,000 times a fight.

Although it makes you wonder how it affects lesser geared or even leveling a warlock.

Pnutt · 03/04/10, 3:07 PM

Originally Posted by Mihir

Yep. Only use it on shred if it doesn't fuck up your normal priority list.

See Visualising the optimal cat rotation ingame

Edited my post and thanks I missed that thread.

Dextrax · 03/04/10, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by Capstone

As he said, haste above 676 is absolutely useless if you are not casting HL. Not sure how you missed that. You don't need mp5 either for flash spam.

As an example, I downloaded your character from Armory and optimized it for FoL spam. You would swap your SoW glyph for SoL, put a Potent Ametrine in your gloves, change all other gems except for the gems in your helm to spellpower gems, and change your head enchant to the Kirin Tor enchant. This would net you over 8k HPS on FoL while still being able to spam casts for over 10 minutes straight without the use of Divine Plea. Swapping some of that useless haste for crit would increase your throughput and longevity further.

This is by no means a recommendation for flash spam, just idle thoughts on how to tune your character better for what you're trying to do.

Very helpful information. Thank You

Texicles · 03/04/10, 4:45 PM

According to the tooltip from the latest PTR patch notes on MMO-Champion Build 11623, FI is now increasing Steady AND Arcane damage by 9%.

EDIT: Fixed broken link... I really mean it this time

Demonfire · 03/04/10, 6:22 PM

I noticed something that strikes me as odd. When i simulate my warlock and calculate scale factors with standard options for demonology under 3.3.2 and 3.3.3 with Life Tap/Felguard/Quick Decay and Life Tap/Felguard/Metamorphosis glyphs, the following scale factors are shown for Stamina:
3.3.2 - Life Tap/Felguard/Metamorphosis: 0.2173
3.3.2 - Life Tap/Felguard/Quick Decay: 0.4088 (!!)
3.3.3 - Life Tap/Felguard/Metamorphosis: 0.1956
3.3.3 - Life Tap/Felguard/Quick Decay: 0.2222
while the SP-scaling stays relatively the same (+/- 0.05). How can this be if the only DPS-boost stamina gives is through more sp?