Thread of Ultimate Stupidity - Page 985

Larisroth · 03/16/10, 1:11 AM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

Yes, because it's hard to criticise here without getting an instant infraction.
I'm a co-author of the simulator and it's meant as a helpful tool. It answers questions about Arp or minor rotation details. It does not help you play better. Clever movement and proper cooldown usage provides far more dps than a simple Glyph of Disease, which gems you put into your sockets or if you put that last talent point into Morbidity or Necrosis. You can play perfectly fine without any tools or guides.
I always have to shake my head at all those long, meaningless simulator results with a one line comment underneath them, questions that have been answered just a page ago or poorly disguised requests for the latest flavour of the month talent build. The good posts sometimes just get lost.
Maybe your findings can bring some new life in here. I for myself would like to have a a thread like this one in the rogue forum, but we'd need the help of the moderators to keep it clean (How do I reach them?).

I love the simulator and I spend far too much time using it to play with builds and more recently trying to improve it. I also have a couple of other theorycrafting spreadsheets that I use to put together my gear and rotations. That said such things are of course only a guide, and it might help if the maintainers of the spec threads posted such a line in their first posts.

The DK class forum is by far the most popular on this board. Yet I agree it is pretty tricky to find information on it. I think the solution might be more focused threads, and in that vein a dps optimisation thread could be good. I think having the thread creator move all the important information to the first post in the thread is useful in cutting down some of the chaff. If the thread as a whole gets too long and unwieldly then you can always start anew. As for the wasted, pointless posts, I used to reply to them, now mostly ignore them, but perhaps we should start reporting them, as they no doubt violate a couple of the posting rules.

As for contacting a mod, might be easier to PM one, or perhaps you could report your own post with a suitable comment :P

geniepo · 03/16/10, 1:15 AM

This might be a dumb question, anyway with the BiS list that you guys suggested.....how do you guys solved the Hit Rating problems? with 4T10 (on head, chest, leg and shoulder) and bryntoll as weapon we don't have any hit rating at all....coz I have a hard time maintaining my hit rating at 263 without gemming and enchanting....can you please give me some suggestion?

Aeolian · 03/16/10, 1:46 AM

Our spreadsheet is a simulator, check out the EnhSim thread or visit EnhSim

Sunius · 03/16/10, 1:57 AM

Hey guys. I have some trouble with SimulationCraft. When I test results for my rogue (The World of Warcraft Armory - Sunex @ Darksorrow - Profile), I get lower dps than actually in game. I set the "target_level=70" just as I attack 70 dummy in game. Though, I noticed this is probably because all my crit shown in simulation craft are lower than in game. For example, my highest crit in game was 2k mutilate on dummy, according to Recount, and in SC - 1.5k. And all the attacks are the same.

This is really bothering me because I don't really want to trust scale factors then. Any ideas?

madvillain7 · 03/16/10, 2:45 AM

I'm a MM Hunter and have been running glyph of serpent sting, glyph of kill shot, and glyph of steady shot. I see people running glyph of chimera shot in lieu of glyph of kill shot, and it worked out to a 7-8 dps gain. i need some confirmation on this if anyone can help me

Kaejin · 03/16/10, 3:40 AM

It's probably worth it to just start the thread and go about reporting posts that don't fit or contribute. I'm not sure you really need to contact a mod directly since a large influx of reports would probably send the message just fine if it really ends up needing so much attention.

Some nice information is scattered throughout the existing threads on the forum, and I believe you're right that a more dedicated thread would be beneficial as long as the thread starter keeps it updated with new information as it's discussed and the thread grows larger.

Blood Tap usage, disease juggling, and gargoyle twisting are some things I would expect might make a good start as some general "advanced" DK mechanics in addition to a list of good times to use AMS during encounters to reap the most benefit. Encounter-specific information as well. For example; encounter specific specs (such as unholy builds that include Desecration for the Lich King encounter), as well as what you can do that actually helps during the fight (using pestilence on phase one doesn't necessarily do anything beside pad meters depending on if any are hanging around Arthas or if your Shambling Horror tank has them all off to the side with him to help build Necrotic Plague stacks).

If there's anyone who is willing to dedicate the time to keeping the thread updated, keeping it clean through using the report feature would be the least the rest of us could do.

Lorelya · 03/16/10, 3:50 AM

Originally Posted by Echelion

For some reason that macro doesn't work (at least it didn't work for me), while it works for any other macroed spell. Maybe it's because Beacon of Light is a buff and doesn't work like some spells and AoE effect buffs which would actually make the encounter more difficult, for example, is it possible to cast BoK/BoS on Valithria? If it is I suppose that would make the fight harder with her having 10% more stamina

Btw the macro I tried was

/tar Valithria Dreamwalker
/cast Beacon of Light

and it didn't work. I got the BoL on me instead, but luckily I noticed as soon as it happened (I recommend using an addon like Parrot or even the standard Blizzard UI notices that will show the buffs cast on you) and could at least cast it manually on her though it was not easy to target her each time out of the portals (you lose target/focus in the Emerald Dream). I use a macro just for targetting her as soon as I come out from the ED and immediately after I cast BoL so I pretty much don't lose any GCD. Also if you lost the Judgement of the Pure buff you may want to cast a judgement before doing anything else (picking a random target is ok, most enemies won't last enough for your raid to effectively benefit from it), that 0.3/0.4 less casting time will become a gain as soon as you manage to cast your fifth HL =)

I use

/tar Valithria Dreamwalker
/focus
/cast Beacon of Light

It works perfectly and I've never had any problems with it.

LemmiLemming · 03/16/10, 3:50 AM

im going frost atm since our enhancement shamans are real slackers and i kinda always liked DW frost ... now my question is : when i dont got acess to sanctified tokens isnt it a bigger DPS increase to go for the non set items from frost tokens and get the 2T10 bonus from the other items?
The DK sim gave me the following stat weight:
GuildOx - WoW Guild Progress, Character and Loot Rankings

derrio · 03/16/10, 4:07 AM

Originally Posted by geniepo

This might be a dumb question, anyway with the BiS list that you guys suggested.....how do you guys solved the Hit Rating problems? with 4T10 (on head, chest, leg and shoulder) and bryntoll as weapon we don't have any hit rating at all....coz I have a hard time maintaining my hit rating at 263 without gemming and enchanting....can you please give me some suggestion?

With the neck, wrists, rep ring and TAJ from normal modes, you should be 16 under the cap. That means you can just get a Precision on the hands and come in a little over. If you don't have the trinket yet, there's a few things you could use to meet the cap, such as [Cloak of the Triumphant Combatant], or [Sanctified Lightsworn Gauntlets].

Once you get a hold of the 4 pieces of hit gear on that heroic list, you come up with an even 264 hit, giving you the opportunity to put Crusher or whathaveyou on the gloves.

Hope that helped.

neomasterc · 03/16/10, 4:15 AM

Originally Posted by Jabronee

Perhaps, there is no need for further conversation when you have Kahorie’s DK Simulator.

The simulator is just an estimate of the value of stats. It's an useful tool to compare things and to show phenomena with evidence, but it definitely has nothing to do with level of play. All it does is it takes the default, cookiecutter rotation and simulate that. DKs are a very dynamic class. Different gear, levels of arpen, etc may lead to different specs being optimal.

To me, when I'm getting a drastically different result from the rest of the DK community, I feel the need to share them, not just "halp im lost". When I simulated that haste>crit, yeah I know thats different from the APE values in the OP, but I feel like its significant because other DKs may be theoretically losing dps unknowingly by adhering too close to the established EP. If the result is totally off, then it is up for discussion as to why it is so. Perhaps it was an error in the simulator or perhaps the person who ran it made a mistake. To blame the simulator is just ignoring the fact that its only a tool that leads to a general increase in dps and does not factor in skill at all.

Allonze · 03/16/10, 5:22 AM

I'm curious as to how our itemisation will change with the pre-Cataclysm release patch. With Spirit being the new mp/5 for Shaman and Pallies, and mana regen becoming much more important will this render our crit/haste gear itemisation relatively useless?

I picked up Trauma (277) this week and I must say I'm fairly unimpressed. I was only able to pull 10k HPS on Lana'thel, with 2 Druids and a Disc in the raid though, and I had internet problems at Festergut. I pulled 9.4k hps on Twin Valks last night. I must say, it doesn't seem to be great - maybe does the same effective healing as ELW.

geniepo · 03/16/10, 5:36 AM

Originally Posted by derrio

With the neck, wrists, rep ring and TAJ from normal modes, you should be 16 under the cap. That means you can just get a Precision on the hands and come in a little over. If you don't have the trinket yet, there's a few things you could use to meet the cap, such as [Cloak of the Triumphant Combatant], or [Sanctified Lightsworn Gauntlets].

Once you get a hold of the 4 pieces of hit gear on that heroic list, you come up with an even 264 hit, giving you the opportunity to put Crusher or whathaveyou on the gloves.

Hope that helped.

The neck in BiS list haven't drop for me yet and still working on the trinket from professor.....I pick up [Fleshrending Gauntlets] the non-heroic version so still got quite abit upgrade to do...
Another question ......for waist and finger are there any reason why we use vengeful noose and ashen band of endless vengeance instead of the one that give us strenght? I thought we want to stock up on strength?

DieMie · 03/16/10, 6:03 AM

Sorry my bad. I meant not exclusive. What i meant was that making it stack wif WF is a great buff. But my question is, what IF there is no extra shammy in ur raid that provides the extra 16/20%, for example, only 1 shammy and they drop the spell haste(meaning u will only be wif ur 20% haste from icy talon). Will making a sub-frost still be worth it?

If there is no shammy (haste) surely the spec will be even more attractive? The reason for not speccing frost *now* is that the haste is useless if you have a shammy or other DK with IIT in your raid. So the 20% haste amounts to wasted talent points. Black Ice has always been a good talent, the point was that it required wasting points to get it. With the new PTR-spec, you 'waste' 5 talent points in the first tier of frost (the improved IT is not that good and the runic power a filler really) but you get to access Black Ice, 20% haste and 4% Strength. This turns out to be better than the blood tree.

If we compare this with the current situation the only difference is the 4% Str. So actually it might already be a very competitive build if you don't have WF or IIT in your raid. (Since Black Ice will be worse after the patch due to changes in SS). After the patch, not having WF or IIT in your raid is unfortunate but does not diminish the value of your spec. You still get Black Ice, 20% haste and 4% Str. There is nothing in the mechanic of haste that should make it anything but a more or less linear dps increase.

Just my 2c ofcourse.

dougus · 03/16/10, 6:25 AM

can anyone tell me the rough TPS increase from Libram of sacred shield vs libram of valiance single target considering im not over the 2800 BV cap?

Blackbull_chogall · 03/16/10, 8:20 AM

Hi,

With the glyph of starfall, we are using starfall very often, without agro concern and with a great dps benefit specially on fight with many mobs like : Lady deathwisper, gunship, dreamwalker and Lichking. However, with the great buff of starfall, i think we will pull easily agro on adds during those fight, and starfall migth be harder to use (and thus, the théoretical maximum damage might be hard to produce, due to agro considérations). What do you think ?