Combat Rating relative values shuffle depending on a given character's current stats and gear. Therefore, the most accurate relative values applicable to YOU can be found by using SimulationCraft and Rawr - and importing YOUR character. The general consensus for heroic 372 gear however is: Intellect -> Hit ~= Spellpower -> Haste -> Crit -> Mastery. We suggest that you follow and familise yourself with the latest developments on this topic via resources such as this Fire Compendium thread, the Mage Simulation thread - and via tools such as Rawr and Simulationcraft.
So Rawr suggests you haste > crit on your gear, because of how bad ignite munching is.
First time posting, but have been reading EJ for years. I understand that with the changes to 4.0.6, haste now has much more value than crit. I am wondering though if it is really worth sacrificing that much crit to gain that 2nd tick of Immolate at the 2589 haste threshhold. I am in nearly all 359 gear with the exception of my tier Helm and Shoulders. I would have to sacrifice nearly all crit to get even close to the 2589 threshhold (and still would not acheive it) while maintaining my 1742 hit rating. I could possibly see the threshhold being acheivable in the BiS Heroic gear, but I think you sacrifice too much to try to get it before then. And lets be honest, only the top guilds in the world are even remotely close to BiS heroic gear, which is a very small portion of the people that read these forums.
My point is, I do not see it being effective to stack so much haste, neglecting crit, in tier 11 content until Heroics. I have spent thousands of gold regemming, reforging, and re-enchanting to test all the napkin math on this forum in an actual raid environment. While haste is definately a better stat for us, we still depend on crits to get the high DPS numbers out there as well as allows our Improved Imp to proc more for instant-cast Soulfires. Am I reading into this all wrong?
ok, im by no means an expert. now that that's out of the way, after reading the section on ignite munching it seems to me that haste would provide far more linear and repeatable DPS than crit. obviously we wouldnt completely ignore crit but if we were able to noticeably increase the number of fireball casts (for example) wouldnt the resulting dps even out the lower crit percentage?
The 30% bleed debuff makes your PS do 39% bonus crit damage instead of 30%. This has always been beneficial for MM, although lower down the chain as compared to other buffs. Now with MM using AI instead of AS as the focus dump, how much AI crits, and the almost guaranteed AI crits during the CA phase, this debuff is quite significant. For my MM hunter, its about a 891 DPS out of 27686 DPS. This is 3.2% of my damage from that debuff, which is considerable.
Here is where each of the non-BM pet buffs/debuffs affect my MM hunter to give you an idea of where it rates for MM hunters (this is the difference of the absence of the buff when all other buffs are present):
Buff/Debuff
Lost Dmg
Percent Loss
Str/Agi
2243
8,10%
5% crit
1567
5.66%
30% bleed
891
3.22%
4% physical
888
3.21%
12% armor
872
3.15%
8% magic
341
1.23%
As can be seen, with how important agi is to us, the Str/Agi buff is by far the most important qand is the one to use soloing. This is followed by 5% crit due to crit being not only a big direct factor in our damage but the other impacts of it on PS, Go for the Throat, Sic'Em, etc. The next three are all bunched together with similar benefits. The last is currently 8% magic since we are no longer using AS as our focus dump.
With that said, you still want to pick the pet buff to provide that provides the biggest benefit for the raid. This could easily be the 8% magic debuff although it is by far the worst for you.
So, I just want to wrap and confirm this, if you have DK or shaman for the str/agi and fury warrior or feral for 5% crit, then Tendon Rip pet is the next best thing to have (for personal DPS view). We usually have other hunter doing survival with his 8% magic pet debuff.
Explain me,this breakpoints http://typehforheals.com/wp-content/...ts-671x438.png with raid baffs or no?If no,how more haste i need with baffs and if this breakpoints "with", so what baffs?
PS: without lock baff! thx!
I Know is something mad but Have someone Tryed out to Remove Chimera,Remove Arcane Shot , Remove Serpent Sting and just do 2 button rotation....
i know is kind ridiculous but i had the best dps result on the dummy....
Average Dps with 2x Rapidfire = around 25k , 18k Sustained Dps on 5min with my gear
Rotation Was Like : AiS, AiS, Rapidfire,SS,SS,AiS,SS,SS,AiS (on 4 Stack of marksman every time you cast a Steady you push AiS, the result is that you hard cast AiS with no cost in Energy, so you can Cast Another AiS in the Rotation). I'm Not so good in calculation, but after tryed every rotation you posted here, this one i posted here , it resulted for me better than all the others , thats why yesterday i have tryed to drop totally Chimera and marked for death, in favor of daze on multishot talent and rapid killing.
If someone of you good that is good in calculating thing can give a look on it and let me know i will be glad.
I Know is something mad but Have someone Tryed out to Remove Chimera,Remove Arcane Shot , Remove Serpent Sting and just do 2 button rotation....
i know is kind ridiculous but i had the best dps result on the dummy....
Average Dps with 2x Rapidfire = around 25k , 18k Sustained Dps on 5min with my gear
Rotation Was Like : AiS, AiS, Rapidfire,SS,SS,AiS,SS,SS,AiS (on 4 Stack of marksman every time you cast a Steady you push AiS, the result is that you hard cast AiS with no cost in Energy, so you can Cast Another AiS in the Rotation). I'm Not so good in calculation, but after tryed every rotation you posted here, this one i posted here , it resulted for me better than all the others , thats why yesterday i have tryed to drop totally Chimera and marked for death, in favor of daze on multishot talent and rapid killing.
If someone of you good that is good in calculating thing can give a look on it and let me know i will be glad.
Regards
a) Target dummy is only good for simming a CA phase, since its always at 100% ( or above 80% health ) in which case, the rotation you mentioned does apply. ( As far as i could understand from your post you didnt pick up Chimera Shot as a talent ? Now thats a first :-)
b) During a CA phase with Rapid Fire, eventually Bloodlust / Heroism it can and will probably yield better results, if you ignore SrS, CS and AS all together. Once they are over though, it is ( or should be) a dps increase to go back to including SrS + CS in your rotation.
c) After Careful Aim phase is over, you should revert back to your normal rotation e.g. including SrS+CS
Thanks ,aye i'll try this out, i have only tryed 2 button rotation in heroic istance and i have to say with very good result, but i know in raid situation where you have to move,kite etc its another story..
I'm confused about the hitcap. I've read that with lvl 85 you need about 1746 points to cap it.
But i've got 1032 now and it already states 0,00% 3 levels up. Do i need to keep on speccing it? Or is the limit reached?
The 3% crit multiplier is the same on both gems, and the passive stat increase is already incorporated in the other inputs, so as far as EnhSim is concerned, they are the same gem :-)
I'm confused about the hitcap. I've read that with lvl 85 you need about 1746 points to cap it.
But i've got 1032 now and it already states 0,00% 3 levels up. Do i need to keep on speccing it? Or is the limit reached?
Thanks,
Moppert.
Hi !
I think you should watch the spell paragraph and not the melee or ranged one.
It should come from this.
Thank you for the insightful reading. Interesting how things have evolved through the early days of Cata.
I main-swapped to my DK as we had various tank issues and so am only now getting to my hunter.
I've been using FemaleDwarf pretty religiously to drive my gear update and reforging choices... generally what I have found is that FD is valuing haste over mastery (for me).
Do others have this experience? Is there a general value of haste that we should be shooting for? Of course, I am valuing Agi > Hit > Crit first, but then have been confused if Haste > Mastery or Mastery > Haste... or if it depends on what your particular stats are at any given time, e.g. is there a haste "softcap" wherein after you get to it, Mastery > Haste, but before it, Haste > Mastery?
Any quick summary or suggested value (if it is felt that a softcap exists) would be greatly appreciated.
Ok, I tried many times to use Kahorie's simulator but I had strange results so, following Consider's guidelines, I simmed my character with simcraft and those are the risults
I've never like using the Succubus. I prefer the Felhunter due to the Demon Soul buff, since I use Drain Life as a Filler instead of Shadowbolt. Is this such a huge DPS loss that I should drop everything and switch to the Succ, or am I just fine where I am?
The first heal to land is only the most important IF it saved someones life. If no damage follows directly after, then it's only as good as the average of all heals between starting to heal a target and the next wave of damage. This isn't fidgeting with numbers, as you claim, this is how things work in reality.
And the triage model is a fundamentally un-challenging one. It's something that barely exists in normal raids, and by the time you hit heroic raids, it's completely gone. So discussing triage healing as if it had any merit or worth what so ever is a complete waste of time, because it doesn't. A model which is inherently prone to out-gearing and where in you have ample time to make decisions just won't ever be even remotely challenging, and that's why on the content that matters, i.e. heroic raids, we're going to be stuck with the same model for raid damage and healing as we had in TBC/WotLK.
I agree for the most part and what you mention is another reason why I continue to waffle on the Mastery issue. I worry about the end of each Tier when gear means players will rarely (hopefully) be sitting at low health. I do agree that the Triage model you describe wouldn't work but I'm coming to the conclusion that when GC talked of Triage he meant damage would look more like a sine curve as opposed to the continuous damage of ICC.
I do think the argument about the "first" heal could also be made about Haste however. I agree that you can never know if a player at 10% health is about to die but in that instance I value Mastery much higher than Haste since my choice of heals at that moment (GHW or HS) will already be Hasted via TW and the ability to get someone from 10% to 60% in one heal (very likely with the new GHW) is preferable to shaving a tenth of a second off of said spells. If they weren't about to die than neither Haste nor Mastery has an impact so it's wrong to use that as an argument.
Just about every log shows HR, CH and ELW as our top heals followed usually by Riptide. Other than the Haste points for extra HoT tics Haste has zero impact on three of those top four spells. Mastery doesn't effect the RT HoT or ELW but it does boost HR, RT's direct heal and CH. Haste impacts our other direct heals but because of Tidal Waves it's value isn't as strong. The main benefit of Haste is it's impact on Chain Heal which is still very important to us and has a huge impact on the effectiveness of the spell.
02/15/11, 6:55 PM
Thanks for the quick reply
