Raetha

But they did. They increased Icebound to 2 minutes. I agree with the latter, but they did even include nerfs to cooldowns.

I think that the numbers thing you mentioned that would convince you will be necessary for me to believe that we still scale enough to make up for this. However, in theory, what happens is that we don't have block, and block is being doubled in essence, while our passive reduction is "in line" with other classes. One could argue about our cooldowns, but again, Icebound was nerfed as well. In a way, this is a double-nerf of sorts. I have no problem being the offtank and staying in that position. But the changes interfere even with that particular job.

Not sure how that applies to us but yeah, I think people noticed that one. Can you clarify whether you mean that druid tanking is perfect so doesn't need a tweak, or that you think they are getting a "nerfbat" by not being buffed through shield block? From what I'm gathering, its as if you feel druids are in between warrior/pally and DK tanking. I'm not sure I'm convinced that this is the case, as it depends on play-style of healers.

I'm not sure who's actually hitting armor cap with the previous nerf to Frost Presence. Certainly the changes to healers so they don't give you armor will keep us from hitting it though.

I have no problem with Warriors and Paladins being "brought up to par." What it does feel like is that they are both raising effectiveness of paladins and warriors, while nerfing the DK's. One or the other would have been fine. Doing both seems a bit excessive. That said, the previous nerf to Frost Presence already interfered with my tanking. I'm unsure how the new changes are necessary. If I had only a few of them to look at, like a change to icebound to 2 minutes and that alone, I could probably live with that as I felt it was overpowered. As it stands, nerfing us so that we need to use those cooldowns to survive, and then also nerfing icebound at the same time despite the fact that we don't have block value is too much.

But the problem is, the armor and HP is supposed to offset the fact that we have no block. Again, the cooldowns are being tweaked as well. I think that perhaps with the fact that you're not Unholy-specialized, the nerfs may not be as problematic to you. But with the loss of Unholy Blight as an aoe aggro, the loss of Desecration as a snare + aggro improving skill in one, the fact that very little of our tanking is done by death coiling since most of our runic is burned through rune strikes, and obviously the fact that we're "third in line" in DK tanking - all this contributes to the feeling people get about the nerfs in general.

The answer to all this seems to come in the form of "DK tanks will merely have to spec either blood or frost (frost preferably) to have a good chance of doing their job." This flies in the face of their design making each tree both a tanking and DPS tree. I'm not sure what Blizzard is intending here, and I feel that they are perhaps overcompensating for the fact that Unholy has been the most popular tree up until now.

As a note: Prior to the previous patch, I felt that I was way overpowered compared to our main tank Warrior. I would often get the request to main tank instead of him. After that patch, I was not asked to do so again, and I took very spiky/scary damage. With the nerfs to armor, I can no longer hold a ton of mobs on me and expect to miraculously live. And that's fine, as I felt we were overpowered, and was willing to live with it. This on the other hand is on an entirely different scale.

 

Gunner52

Hey all, I've read the last two pages and the first page, I just switched from dps to tank yesterday and I am sitting in full blues, using armageddon as my tanking weapon and the Emblem sigil. I lack tank trinkets and rings but I am working on getting those, I am sitting at like 547 def without sigil proc and 557 with it (Off top of my head.) What I'm curious to know is are these 3.2 changes going to hurt the gearing up tank? I'm sitting at low health, I lose health from my dps to my tank gear (like 1k) but I see the health nerf in Frost pres, and I rely on good healers and my cds to not die on most fights in heroics.

I also see the nerf to toughness as cause of concern for a new dk tank, when you have those blues from rep and crafted maybe a epic or two from a drop from a heroic or a bud hooked you up, the extra armor from toughness is really nice for getting that extra chance of not dieing from that scary boss you have never tanked before. I know the main reason it was nerfed is that people put points in it for pvp but that can be solved by moving it up the tree more, not by nerfing it.

Also I was looking at the Tempered Titansteel Helm (Crafted BS epic tank helm) and compared it to my current rare Tempered Saronitee Heml or something like that (crafted Bs item) and I lose about 36-37 def (rating) but gain a meta and a gem socket. Does that outweigh the lose of my def, granted I am over cap. And the same with the boots, I have the rep boots from Wyrmrest (I think thats the rep) and they have like 10 more def rating then the crafted ones. Any ideas?

P.S. I know my belt has block rating on it, but I don't have anything else....go ahead laugh.

Thanks!

 

Raetha

Most of those questions are answered in other threads, such as the DK tanking thread that seems to be more for new tanks. But I'll answer your questions with pretty much one word: Yes.

To elaborate:

Yes it will affect you, but your problem lies in your gear. Running heroics daily will help you gear up, as you get items not only from drops but from the emblems.

Yes, the titansteel is better than your saronite. You said something about your health/stam. Titansteel has a lot more on it, along with a slot for Austere Earthsiege diamond and a stam gem.

Yes, you are overcapped on def so the loss of def (so long as you don't lower yourself below cap) is worth it. Even if it does lower you below the cap, getting rings/better items will help you with that.

The only ideas I can come up with are to get BoE epics, whether they are craftables or vendor or drops from bosses. As it stands, Bracers of Dalaran's Parapets are likely to be very cheap lately. The titansteel helm will be better for you too.

In a nutshell, there are a number of tanking threads in the forum besides this one. Many contain upgrade information, ideas for tanking, and other good notes. If you read through them I'm sure you will find the answer to many of your questions.

 

cagome95

Well curently my hit is low its 1.71% i don't have a problem with threat but when i need to taunt it seems to miss often. my question is does growl have its own hit cap, or do i have to have as much hit as a mele would have in a raid.

 

Gunner52

Thanks bunch, in all honostity I thought this was the only tank thread, sorry to put my new tank questions in the more advanced thread, but the answers help.

 

budhabless

I've changed my UI around alot here you can check sum of them out...dont mind the old pics my Ui then was a complete mess...check the most recent UI pics I think its the best I had so far

Pictures by KKKillaz - Photobucket

I've used both xperl and pitbull personally i like xperl better
Bartender
DBM
Yata
fubar
Prat
Quartz
Recount
SatrinaBuffFrame
ShamanFriend
Simple minimap
SLDataText
TinyTip

 

GtMega

Hey guys i have a cupple of questions i am a new resto druid i used to play a holy pally before but now i am rolling resto because of the druid ability to top the meter. i have kinda gotten the hang of all the new spells and i admit i have not read all 63 pages here but i have read alot of them, i am having problems when i want to rejv a good chunk of the raid, what i have been doing is putting wildgrowth on the raid because i dont have 2 wait for the GCD to take effect when i rejuv i feel like i am wasting so much time waiting 4 the GCD, am i? also regrowth lasts longer so it has been my tendence to use that even though it costs dubble the mana. from what i have read as a druid i shouldnt need to use my interavte on myself but i find myself doing that anyway so anyone have any thoughts or comments 2 help me out? sry if my spelling and grammer makes anyone mad i typed this quick.

 

Embalm

Hey Caliste, you wouldn't be able to remember where you found the Crow Butterfly UI art would you? I've been looking for ages but all the links I find are outdated. I used to use Fairy UI back in the day, and this is similarily gorgeous. I'd love love love being able to track it down.

 

Obliterus

I have yet to see any real mention of the ability [Army of the Dead], I admit the cool down (if not talented) is quite large, although I have seen a significant increase in overall DPS when this ability has been used. The ability itself is quite problematic if used on an encounter which includes vasts amounts of AE or encounters such as Freya in where you can not attack the NPC until P2. However, if used at the start of the fight it can contribute to overall damage dealt. Encounters such as Ignis saw the best use of this ability.

I do apologise if I have overlooked this from a previous post.

 

selwonk

Thank you for the great FAQ, but you are using 'your' in place of 'you're' in a lot of instances. Be mindful of your homophones.

 

Slideclub

Is the bonus 4t8 better with 51/7/13 or spe combat ?
i know that combat is better than 51/13/7
thanks

 

Wyrmbergg

Cheers Sylgian, has anyone been getting any errors with Fubar? everytime I move my cursor over it I get an error message. I have the latest version but not sure why I get this error.

 

Narutostrief

I have been tanking in the frost tree with my DK since WotLk came out, i have enjoyed it very much. So i was searching threw forums the other day when i saw they had the patch notes for 3.2 at first i was excited to see some of the changes they were planning until i got to the class changes with the DK.

Death Knights

Due to significant talent changes, all death knight talents will be reset for players.

• Blood Strike: The bonus damage this ability receives from diseases on the target has been increased to 50% per disease.
• Chains of Ice: Now reduces movement by 95% instead of 100%. The main effect of this change will be that targets of Chains of Ice will not have to re-issue a movement command to continue moving.
• Frost Presence: 10% bonus health reduced to 6% bonus stamina.
• Frost Strike: This ability can now be dodged, parried, or blocked. Weapon damage bonus reduced to 55%, down from 60%.
• Icebound Fortitude: Cooldown increased to 2 minutes.

Talents

Blood

• Dancing Rune Weapon: This ability now has a fixed duration of 12 seconds (which can still be modified by its glyph) and a fixed cost of 60 runic power.
• Veteran of the Third War: Stamina bonus reduced to 1/2/3%.

Frost

• Blood of the North: Reduced to a 3-point talent. Increases Blood Strike and Frost Strike damage by 5/10/15%. There is now a 33/66/100% chance whenever you hit with Blood Strike or Pestilence that the Blood Rune will become a Death Rune when it activates.
• Lichborne: Duration reduced to 10 seconds, and cooldown reduced to 2 minutes.
• Threat of Thassarian: New 3-point talent. When dual-wielding, your Death Strikes, Obliterates, Plague Strikes, Blood Strikes and Frost Strike have a 30/60/100% chance to also deal damage with your off-hand weapon. Off-hand strikes are roughly one half the effect of the original strike.
• Toughness: This talent now grants 2/4/6/8/10% armor instead of 3/6/9/12/15%, placing it in line with similar abilities of other classes.

Unholy

• Desecration: This talent has been reduced to 2 points for 25/50% snare and no longer increases damage done by the death knight. It has also been moved one tier earlier in the tree and its spell effect has been made more transparent.
• Desolation: New talent. This talent is in the position formerly occupied by Desecration. It causes Blood Strikes to increase all damage the death knight deals by 1/2/3/4/5% for 12 seconds.
• Scourge Strike: Weapon damage bonus reduced to 40%, down from 45%. Damage increased by 10% per disease on the target, down from 11%.
• Summon Gargoyle: The gargoyle now flies lower to the ground, making it susceptible to melee attacks. This ability now has a fixed duration of 30 seconds and a fixed cost of 60 runic power.
• Summon Gargoyle: The gargoyle now flies lower to the ground, making it susceptible to melee attacks. This ability now has a fixed duration of 30 seconds and a fixed cost of 60 runic power.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinion
At this point i don't even know if I'll be able to tank after the patch.

How do you feel about the changes for DK tanking?

 

kindlin

Thank you for this awesome mod and I just want to say, keep up the good work

 

michiru

can someone plz post a elemental Summary like the enh summarey abov?

 

shatich

What's better Glyph of Serpent Sting or Glyph of Steady shot ?

 

Zanador

Look here:

Raid Tested uses of Army of the Dead

 

Azlannagh

Generally Srs Glyph is considered to be better due to the fact one saves out GCD's that way.
(and Sv doesn't use alot of SS).

 

eduin

Just to emphasise how poor it is here's the list of T8.5 stamina for dps and healers :-

Death Knight - 591
Warrior - 591
Retadin - 591

Feral - 530

Warlock - 400

Shadow - 388
Rogue - 388

Holydin - 381
Boomkin - 381
Tree - 381
ELEMENTAL SHAMAN - 381
RESTORATION SHAMAN - 381

Healingpriest - 364

Mage - 334

Hunter - 328

ENHANCEMENT SHAMAN - 324

No-one else in melee has anywhere near the exposure of Enhancement and the base health change, while welcome, putting us on par with Paladins doesn't do much when said Paladin get 3k HP from five pieces of tier gear.

 

Fuzzyutters

I'm a female tauren, I have warstomp, Firenova totem, and the initial stun when you pop wolves. Thats a 6 second stun combo if you, warstomp, set down your firenova totem, and instantly pop wolves for the wolf stun, and then the firenova totem procs and stuns, and then you can stoneclaw bubble, drop grounding and tremor if need be. and gg

 

Rufix

It can be, sure, I'm using Recount, as Arcane I don't use DoTs:P on the other hand ppl that are above me in dmg done got less DPS, even on Patch-like fight

 

Denix

This guide has been superb for a starting out tank DK like my self. Thanks!

 

Denix

Record on to a seperate harddrive? Supposed to record a lot smoother.

 

Denix

This looks interesting! Going to give them a try for sure. They sound lightweight which is what I'm after.

 

Sintaxx

removed