Sedare

I am trying to follow what your talkin about here.
T4 piece proc makes it so the Missile Barrage proc doesnt expire... When im in my rotation I dont clear the debuff when before I use missiles. I cant tell if you clear it with AB or you save it for missiles. It would be logical to max DPS by using the debuff... but I read a posts where it sounded like you clear the debuff and use the proc AFTER.
This is friendly for mana... but that just means your not stacking enough spirit. No?

 

Shoein

Dul:

There are two frost threads here with the newwer one being more concise. I'm not sure about pvp at all unfortunately.

 

Tiny^

before i start, lets get one thing straight im a noob!

now this wed was my 5th week at level 80, and it took me 1month to grind to 80 with help from a mate and tripple xp.

iv read alot of post on here about haste/crit/hit and atm i have put crit/spell power gems in my gear. my first question is should i be stacking crit (26% unbuffed in mookin fourm) or haste? (i have skinning for crit bonus)

Which food should i be using? im currently using the 40haste one atm in all raids or should i be using spell power food.

 

snakeinmypants

Your gemming looks pretty good. You may want to check the spread sheet though, as I think you'll find that putting an orange gem in the yellow slot on your back, and picking up the 6 agility, may put you a little more ahead then the red gem.

 

Teii

[Edit] Removed my post, since I clearly missread the changelog (and I don't have a PTR account). My apologizes.

Thou, I am sure that there are more polite ways to mention it, Kamp.

 

suicuique

There are no "full rage bar" executes anymore.
The wording of SD talent has changed because it was redundant to explicitely state that only 30 rage executes are possible. I suspect this is the cause for the confusion.

 

Kampfschaf

Testing changes on PTR > posting bullshit from misread changelogs.

 

jeftre

Hi all,

I am trying the MM build and there's something that i dont get..

Can you guys explain me why SrS glyph is a must?Since CS is refresing SrS why it would be useful to extend SrS duration?

Are you guys waiting for SrS to do his maximum duration and then fire CS or just firing CS when is cooldown is up?

Sorry if that question can be noobish a bit....

 

Ossian666

Having the SrS Glyph increases the duration and since it is getting extra ticks it is increasing damage done by SrS. If the damage of SrS is increased then the damage done by the SrS effect of CS is then increased as well.

Simply put, longer duration SrS equals more CS damage for you.

 

turbozmike

On a fight like Thorim where you can use FOK alot you will see the differance between specs.
I consider and call 18/51/2 The Foking spec. Im my guild the other 2 rogues use 18/51/2 it is very clear what spec is good on what fights. In single target fights (ignis, hodir ect) 15/51/5 will out dps 18/51/2 by a large margin in my experiance.

 

Filppula

What a truly uninformed post here. The topic that's being discussed is that we are dying to incoming damage that we can't even react to. For instance, last night my guild was killing one of the Faceless One adds in General Vezax's room when the Void Beast appeared and hit me for a 22500 melee swing. It one shotted me with a 247 overkill and the tank didn't even have time to taunt it yet. There are countless other situations (i.e. Thorim's Chain Lightning, Freya's Detonating Lashers, etc.) that are killing us that other melee classes can survive. It is the first time I would have survived something if we had the Base Health Buff right now since most of my similar deaths are usually 1-2K overkills.

Here's hoping we see some sort of HP buff before 3.2 is finalized.

 

gematt7

man i'd kiss ya... thanks a lot

 

nego

Working good on this end as well.

 

Griefknight

Do they keep it up on Steelbreaker assuming your guild is endgame and your the one tanking him? Do they keep it up on General Vezax at all? If they die on Thorim HM and your the only tank left, can they still keep it up? What if you are asked to solo tank the arena?

How large is this threat gain and is it worth taking extra damage if the other tanks don't keep it up 100% of the time? What fights need this extra threat? If you wanted to get more threat, why not drop WotN and pick up both ITT and Necrosis?

 

Rabite

I can't believe no one has seen this list, which has been floating around since pre-BC release:

Draenor Set

Azuremyst Isle - 1 to 10
Bloodmyrk Isle - 10 to 20

Eversong Forest - 1 to 10
Quel'thalas - 10 to 20

Hellfire Peninsula - 58 to 62
Zangarmarsh - 60 to 64
Terokkar Forest - 61 to 65
The Deadlands - 63 to 67
Nagrand - 64 to 68
Blade's Edge Mountains - 66 to 70
Netherstorm - 67 to 70
Shadowmoon Valley - 69 to 70

Northrend Set

Borean Tundra - 67 to 70
Howling Fjord - 67 to 70
Dragonblight - 69 to 72
Grizzly Hills - 70 to 73
Crystalsong Forest - 72 to 75
Zul'drak - 73 to 76
Sholazar Basin - 75 to 79
Storm Peaks - 76 to 80
Icecrown Glacier - 78 to 80

Maelstrom Set

Gilneas - 77 to 80
Grim Batol - 78 to 81
Kul Tiras - 79 to 82
Kezan - 81 to 86
Tel Abim - 83 to 85
Zandalar - 84 to 87
Plunder Isle - 86 to 88
The Broken Isles - 87 to 90
The Maelstrom - 89 to 90

Plane Set

Pandaria - 1 to 10
Hiji - 10 to 20

Wolfenhold - 1 to 10
Xorothian Plains - 10 to 20

The Green Lands - 88 to 91
The Dying Paradise - 91 to 94
The Emerald Nightmare - 94 to 97
The Eye of Ysera - 97 to 100

Deephome - 88 to 91
Skywall - 91 to 94
The Abyssal Maw - 94 to 97
The Firelands - 97 to 100

Legion Set

K'aresh - 96 to 99
Argus Meadowlands - 97 to 100
Mac'Aree - 99 to 100
Maw of Oblivion - 100+
The Burning Citadel - 100+++

Now, Blizzard hasn't kept to this exactly (Deadlands/Auchindoun was merged into Terrorkar, Dalaran load lead to Crystalsong being depopulated) but it has been accurate enough that I'd consider Emerald Dream and/or additional races in Cataclysm to be extremely unlikely.

 

D3thray

I posted this comment in the Max DPS thread and I'm reposting it here in hopes of some discussion.

The only REAL problem with BM is that fight gimmick buffs rarely if ever affect the pet (Yogg, Hodir, Thaddius, IC, Vezaxx, etc). Although the DPS is theoretically lower by a substantial margin, BM has a much easier time reaching 90% of its theoretical maximum b/c of other things which do not affect the pet, especially ones that would cause the hunter to move. The pet remains DPSing in general a much higher percentage of your average Ulduar fight than the Hunter does. This also means that BW uptime when the hunter IS attacking is higher than is modeled in the spreadsheet b/c the hunter obviously uses it when she doesn't have to move. Fights with short periodic burn phases or fights with pauses in the fighting also inflate BM numbers higher than theory would indicate (Freya, XT, Mimiron, and in particular Hard Mode XT where having a hunter or two respec to BM if you are just on the cusp of killing the heart will easily push you over). I am of the opinion that if BM were ever capable of reaching the theoretical DPS numbers of MM or SV then there would be no reason to spec either of those simply because of the reasons I mentioned which inflate BM dps.

The only real fix needed is for fight gimmick buffs to affect pets as well. BM is a perfect example of a spec where theorycraft does not accurately model real world scenarios. The spreadsheet really does this spec a disservice, and I am a diehard Survival hunter who typically scoffed at BM even when it WAS the best spec.

 

Furi-BL

Sorry for the big tooltip couldn't find it anywhere else. Got it last night and seems to have 45 second CD like most trinkets and the proc is actually 726 haste as opposed to the tooltip

 

koaschten

You are a month late to the show.
WotLK Rogue Gear Discussion

 

Furi-BL

sorry should of read it all just thought there wouldn't be much testing on it yet.

 

Darkbeastsb

This is from the first line on the post above you.

 

Anubisck

@Boevis: The armory is bugged I know alot of people are not able to search any character.

 

aangus

Sorry. I moved to Winterhoof. Didn't see that my change to the profile didn't take.

Why respond at all then? Responding to noobs like me is always optional.

Maybe because we're new to feral DPS and have no clue where to start so we start by reading the "for Dummies" guide. We follow the instructions in the guide and it tells us to use this tool (Rawr in this case) which tells us to do something different and maybe we get curious as to whether the guidelines about ArP vs. Agi stated in the "for Dummies" guide are more accurate or maybe the guide should have stated "if 200 < x < ArP Cap, gem for ArP unless Rawr or one of the other tools tells you to do something different". The way that it is stated in the original post and from other discussions, it seemed like a pretty "hard and fast" rule that ArP was better than Agi between 200 and ArP cap.

Thank you. Excellent info and probably explains alot about why I am struggling with my cycles.

That is the whole point of my post. I was trying to determine how much to trust Rawr (especially when it deviates from the info presented in posts like this).

 

nerahla

Answer to the Focus Magic question:

FM each other, its way way better, there shouldn't even be a question. Instead of just getting a 3% by putting it on someone else, you get 6% with the chain. Any # of mages more than 1 can all daisy chain their FMs on each other... even #s doubling up, odd numbers putting one on the next mage, making a circle. It's a no brainer... and it is what the spell is there for.


Question: In Rawr, why does it ALWAYS pick haste as the top DPS stat? With ttw/fb spec, crit gives you way more bang for the buck, and losing 8-10% crit like Rawr expects with BiS gear would be horrible.

Haste is a luxury, and nice, but to be a decent ttw/fb spec mage you need at the very least 35% crit or else you're just wasting raid space and everyone knows it. Getting 100 more haste for 2-3 more fireballs (which amounts to about 15000 more damage per minute is nothing, when 1 single crit will out perform the extra couple of fireballs you get.

Who the hell is crunching these numbers? Do they even raid?



Also, shouldn't there be a separate pvp question/answer thread so we don't need to wade through unnecessary information?

 

Chrisfarly

Well, by the same reasoning as you are using you could say this: What fight really needs the extra 6% reduction in swing speed for a boss?

If threat is optional by your terms, (and judging by your hit and expertise ratings, it is to you.) then what difference is a little extra mana from your healers to cover the extra 6 total swings a boss might get on a 3 minute fight?

some math and I'm doing this fast, but assuming a 2 second swing timer, most bosses will get in 30 attacks each minute so cutting that by 20% would mean 24 swings per minute
cutting that by 14% would mean 25.8 swings per minute

so rounding up, your getting 6 extra attacks over a 3 minute fight, 60% of them will be avoided, meaning you will actually only get hit 2 additional times for having a 14% debuff instead of a 20% attack speed debuff on a boss in a 3 minute encounter.

I could make the argument that by not increasing your expertise more, you are causing more parry haste hits then IIT could ever make up with the 6% extra debuff.

I also think comparing the mitigation offered by WotN to a 6% attack speed debuff also shows quite a bit of naiveté on your part.

 

Karede

What I don't understand is all these people coming out and acting as though threat is a real concern for Blood tanks. There are only a few situations where threat is ever of concern, and those are things like Hodir and Vezax, where casters are getting incredible damage buffs that the tank has to find a way to keep up with on threat. And if you're trying hardmode for either of those, you don't have a second tank there to apply a debuff like that. Your prot warrior has gone arms or fury for the fight and your prot paladin has gone to either ret or holy for the fight. Therefore unless you have a Frost DK in raid, it's likely that in those situations you are going to need to apply that all important debuff yourself.

And Grief brings up another great point re Thorim hardmode. What happens when you're the last tank left alive, Thorim has 6 stacks on him and you don't have IIT? Most likely you are going to die extra fast as his attacks are starting to come so quickly your healers can't keep up with it.

Also, the anecdotal evidence provided doesn't seem to me to add up to a significant amount of extra damage/threat. We're hearing that it provided 5-5.6% of total damage. How much damage did Icy Touch provide? On my Vezax (normal mode) kill last night, it provided 3.0% (30038 raw) of my damage. If I don't have IIT then I lose 15% of that. Now, that only ends up being a .5% damage loss overall to me if I don't have IIT in that, but it would be a MUCH bigger raid loss if we had to have someone that would be DPS'ing (we have no Frost DK) spec into something and then provide that debuff. Prot warrior DPS is crap, so if our warrior stay prot for the fight, we probably lose 2-3K DPS, as opposed to 100-200 DPS extra from me taking Necrosis.

Overall the math just does not add up unless you have a dedicated Frost DK who will basically be following you around every fight and always on your mob to supply that debuff. It's your responsibility as a tank to have it and debuff your target, not someone else.