Thread of Ultimate Suck - Page 27

lamrith · 09/28/08, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Mikari

I posted my talent spec earlier in the thread it's nothing special and my pets spec is just all the dps talents. I'm unsure why you're using a 3:2 or any other fixed rotation though, they aren't needed in wotlk/3.0.2.

I am just now looking at this patch and wotlk stuff and had no idea I should not be using a macro? unlinked huh? have to look into that..

Thanks Mikari!

Fearendil · 09/29/08, 4:52 AM

Hello, could anyone post the max dps affliction build at 80 and 70 at the moment please?

Bellin · 09/29/08, 5:28 AM

Hi guys,

I'm not a mage but I'm interested in what has Blizzard planned for mages in next expansion. I've seen lot of unhappy mages on beta forums but no solid feedback either. Can anyone here explain me what is current status of mages? Are you going to be better than in BC or still struggling when it comes to being top on DPS charts?

Thx in advance for your answers.

PaulchenP · 09/29/08, 8:57 AM

Originally Posted by tukez

Some of these will be in the new GUI developed by Levva. Btw Levva, how is the development going?

Nice

.

Dacness · 09/29/08, 4:22 PM

So i decided to copy my dude over, and try out mutilate. Using my current gear + both 1.8 badges daggers of course. BT trinket and Shard. Im thinking ill use Tsunami and shard tonight.

Armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory

This is the build i used: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...00000000000000

Rotation:
5cp snd
5cp rupture
5cp Envenom

Of course, this rotation is on bosses, not trash.

After envenom I shiv right away then muti then 5cp s&d

I got to a max of 2300 dps with a warrior, shaman and hunter. No raid buffs :-(

Has anyone else tried any different rotation? I really want to go mutilate on 3.0 for the last few weeks of BT

Thanks for the feedback

Elwood · 09/30/08, 12:53 AM

Sorry if this has been discussed before--I haven't found it explicitly, but with a thread so large, who knows?--but does anyone have any theorycrafting (or absent that, opinion) as to what glove enchant is better for threat generation?

It seems agility would boost crit rate and thus threat, strength would boost dps and thus threat, and 2% threat, obviously boosts threat directly. Obviously there are other gains from the stats, but those aside, any idea the difference in threat generation?

Thanks in advance.

Hildegard · 09/30/08, 3:33 AM

Originally Posted by Ladana

True, there is a limit to replayability, yet I still - but that is admittingly very subjective and a matter of personal game-stle - think that more variation on the same topic makes for better re-runs. Question is if the repeated reputation farming of lackluster instances in TBC has improved the situation. Strat was for sure not perfect, but having a number of options of which way to take, of doing it short or long, of skipping a quest or two, of having the feeling of free will, gives me a very different experience than knowingfor sure, that I have to kill all the mobs in this tube-like construct of an instance 20 more times to reach exalted. Strat was very dependent on the party you had, and if it worked, the instance went like a charm. If the party was bad, neither Vanilla nor TBC instances did any good.

100% agreed.

Malavas · 09/30/08, 4:58 AM

Copy paste from mmo-champion blues MMO-Champion BlueTracker - GC questions - big big list cuz we're scared many things addresed

I probably can't answer all of these. It's a very long list. But I can pick and choose a few.

Q u o t e:
- Will mages continue to have mana issues as much as they do currently, or is something planned to help?

Yes, we are working on mage mana issues. They seem to run out too fast.

Q u o t e:
- Will mages be expected to be dominant AoE DPS? Or is AoE DPS also being flattened across the board?

Great AE damage isn't a good niche in a game with so many single-target fights. Your AE will be good, but so will that of warlocks and moonkin. We won't keep your single target dps down in order to justify high AE dps.

Q u o t e:
- Will Frost be able to dps as strongly if not more strongly than Arc/Fire in PvE? Or is that still the PvP spec?

We would like to see similar dps from all 3 trees. However, if you go for a heavy PvP build (in any tree), you will probably sacrifice some dps to get there.

Q u o t e:
- Will Arcane Blast be modified so it can be used as a main nuke? Or is that ship sunk?

We want Arcane Blast to be used a lot. It's not Pyro.

Q u o t e:
- Scaling plagued mages throughout BC, will this be closely examined so it doesn't repeat in WOTLK?

Yes. We aren't happy with what happened to mages in BT and Sunwell.

Q u o t e:
- Mages from BC have a stigma attached (see top guild interviews regarding least useful class), will we be given something to help justify bringing us to raids?

We'll make your dps competitive. We're trying not to give *anyone* the one ability that gets them invited to raids.

Q u o t e:
- Will Evocation ever be updated? Lowered Cooldown? Made like Innervate instead of channeled?

I don't know the answer to that yet. I think Evo is fine if mages don't run out of mana in 5 seconds. Evo could be part of that solution or not.

Q u o t e:
- Will Frostfire bolt be given a purpose, now that double dipping is gone. Is it simply an "immunity" fight fallback?

No, we want it to be the kind of spell you can use all the time. But we want to get Frost, Fire and Arcane feeling good first.

Q u o t e:
- Will ignite ever be fixed (ignite "munching")?

We are aware of the problem (of course). It's just not easy to fix.

Q u o t e:
- Will the Water Elemental get more survivability? More resist? More +hit? More scaling?

All pets should inherit the hit of the master now.

Q u o t e:
- Will mages have purpose other than dps in raids so that so called "hybrid" classes won't fill in the mage spots after the single obligatory Winters Chill/Food/Scorch mage has been invited?

Just be better / do more dps than those other classes and you'll earn a spot. We're not going to give you a reason other than that that someone HAS to take you.

Q u o t e:
- Is the numbers pass starting soon? We're worried that you may be running short (5 weeks) on time to properly see data regarding the dps passes.

We've been in the middle of it for weeks. Don't worry about the time. We don't. If we looked at the ship date as a deadline, then we'd get sloppy and do dumb things. The truth is that in an MMO, game balance is a process not a destination. Even after the patch goes live, we'll have opporunities to make changes before you can head to Northrend. With all the changes we've made, there are going to have to be some quick patches to fix things we missed. And overall we'd like to address balance problems that do erupt in a more timely fashion - consider, before we could always say "Eh, they'll still take the X for his Y buff even if his dps is low." We can't say that anymore. Now we just have to get stuff fixed.

Totemmik · 09/30/08, 10:48 AM

From the constant feedback, we've come to the conclusion that mana management at the moment is pretty bad.
As I'm unable to post on the Beta forums I posted a thread on the General Shaman forums with a few ideas that may address the current problems, however that seems to just get lost within the rubbish. I thought I'd bring a few of those ideas here as they're far more likely to be read and evaluated.

I did a quick search as well as read the last 6-7 pages prior to writing this, so hopefully I'm not repeating anything.

My first suggested change was to Improved Water Shield.
Currently we have:

Improved Water Shield -> When you gain a critical effect from your Healing Wave or Lesser Healing Wave spells, you have a 33/66/100% chance to instantly consume a Water Shield Orb

We already know that Riptide will soon be affecting Improved Water Shield too (WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Thoughts and Ideas on Riptide.)
My suggested change would be to have it read as follows:

Improved Water Shield -> When you gain a critical effect from any of your direct Shaman healing spells (Healing Wave, Lesser Healing Wave, Chain Heal and Riptide for clarity), you have a 33/66/100% chance to instantly gain mana equal to one Water Shield orb, this effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds. (Chain Heal will only be able to proc one orb per cast. e.g If all three links crit, you will only restore mana equal to one orb - added for clarity)

After thinking about it, with three chances to proc, I'd assume Chain Heal would probably be slightly too good so maybe a reduced chance per link to go with the healing penalty. For example the initial jump would have a 100% on crit to restore mana, the second jump 75% and finally the third at 50% chance off a crit. Also the removal of actually consuming an orb would hopefully address the fact that we've been 'wasting' a lot of global cooldowns refreshing Water Shield.

Secondly, I believe Riptide could use a slight bit more work.
In its current state (max rank):

Riptide -> Heals a friendly target for 1015 to 1099 and another 795 over 15 sec. Your next Chain Heal cast on that primary target within 15 sec will consume the healing over time effect and increase the amount of the Chain Heal by 25%.

Would something along the lines of the following be deemed acceptable?

Riptide -> Heals a friendly target for 1015 to 1099 and another 795 over 15 sec. Your next Chain Heal cast on that primary target within 15 sec will increase the amount healed by the Chain Heal on all of its targets by 25%. If Riptide is dispelled, the target it was dispelled from will receive X more healing from all forms of healing for Y sec.

All I really did here was stopped the Riptide being consumed by the Chain Heal and made it clear that it would increase the power of the Chain Heal on all targets it hits (because as I haven't actually seen it myself, I'm not clear if it actually does this or not). I also added a detrimental effect to dispelling it trying to steer clear of creating a similar effect to that used with Lifebloom.

These changes were thought up with mana conservation and more synergy between Chain Heal and our new talents in mind.

Maccam · 09/30/08, 10:52 AM

Anyone know if smithing extra sockets is a one-off per item or stacks to 2 or 3? I'm talking about stuff like;

Socket Gloves - Spell - World of Warcraft
Socket Bracer - Spell - World of Warcraft
Socket One-Handed Weapon - Spell - World of Warcraft

or the Eternal Belt Buckle

Thanks to anyone who knows.

Kirion · 09/30/08, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Totemmik

My suggested change would be to have it read as follows:

Improved Water Shield -> When you gain a critical effect from any of your direct Shaman healing spells (Healing Wave, Lesser Healing Wave, Chain Heal and Riptide for clarity), you have a 33/66/100% chance to instantly gain mana equal to one Water Shield orb, this effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds.

After thinking about it, with three chances to proc, I'd assume Chain Heal would probably be slightly too good so maybe a reduced chance per link to go with the healing penalty. For example the initial jump would have a 100% on crit to restore mana, the second jump 75% and finally the third at 50% chance off a crit. Also the removal of actually consuming an orb would hopefully address the fact that we've been 'wasting' a lot of global cooldowns refreshing Water Shield.

That won't be "slightly too good", that will be borderline OP. Also i think it's very hard to code it that way. If blizzard will add chain heal to imp. water shield talent, 15-20 sec cd will be needed.

I like your Riptide suggestion though.

Totemmik · 09/30/08, 11:16 AM

That won't be "slightly too good", that will be borderline OP. Also i think it's very hard to code it that way. If blizzard will add chain heal to imp. water shield talent, 15-20 sec cd will be needed.

The coding issue is fair enough, I seem to underestimate these things while thinking up ideas.
I still believe we need Chain Heal to work with Imp. Water Shield even if it means each bounce has relatively small chance to proc compared to the single target heals. Off the top of my head, would a 33% chance to proc off a crit on each link be deemed slightly more acceptable?

Negg · 09/30/08, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Kirion

That won't be "slightly too good", that will be borderline OP. Also i think it's very hard to code it that way. If blizzard will add chain heal to imp. water shield talent, 15-20 sec cd will be needed.

I like your Riptide suggestion though.

OP, nah, to good with CH ? maybe, but thats easy to fix by increasing the mana cost of CH again some to offset the very big chance of a CH critting.

15-20sec cooldown ? lol. We're talking about 400 (430 talented) mana, with a 20 sec cooldown it's down to around 95mp5, not that much for our main mana regeneration system.

All the internal cooldown should do is make sure one CH can't trigger multiple globes, nothing more.

Totemmik · 09/30/08, 11:22 AM

All the internal cooldown should do is make sure one CH can't trigger multiple globes, nothing more.

Oh I was under the impression that's what I was trying to get across. I think I'll edit the original tool-tip I wrote up to make sure this is the case.

Shareel · 09/30/08, 11:44 AM

After some thought about Riptide I will post my own idea here.

Riptide (Rank 4)
12% of base mana - 40 yd range
Instant cast - 6 sec cooldown
Heals a friendly target for 2315 to 2599. Riptide also fully recharge the casters elemental shield.

1. We get an good emergency heal.
2. The initial heal will get the full spellpower coefficient, thus scaling much better.
3. It refreshs our current elemental shield. Most of the time, this will be Water Shield. But it should also work with Earth Shield or Lighting Shield. We are using an precious GCD to top heal someone instead of just refreshing our Water Shield.

Riptide should be still affected by "Improved Water Shield" and "Tidal Waves".

Kirion · 09/30/08, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Negg

OP, nah, to good with CH ? maybe, but thats easy to fix by increasing the mana cost of CH again some to offset the very big chance of a CH critting.

15-20sec cooldown ? lol. We're talking about 400 (430 talented) mana, with a 20 sec cooldown it's down to around 95mp5, not that much for our main mana regeneration system.

All the internal cooldown should do is make sure one CH can't trigger multiple globes, nothing more.

It's either we leave charges consuming part or adding cd. Imp WS will proc from ~70% of CH casts.

nau · 09/30/08, 12:31 PM

Reading GC's recent replies to the beta forums makes me very nervous about the class designers.

And it definitely pushes me further away from resto.

Vuldunobetra · 09/30/08, 1:24 PM

The original Spirit Link had several issues. Links transferred huge amounts of damage, thus could cause the linked targets to die. This caused all kinds of special conditions to be put in place to break the links. This just made the spell overly complicated to implement. It was too powerful in PVP. It was undispellable, broke CC and worked at any distance once linked.

------------------
Spirit Link v2:
Protects the target with a Spirit Link. Incoming damage is shared with up to five nearby group members, 5% per player. If shared damage would cause player to die, damage is not shared to that player.
------------------

Coding-wise, this uses almost the same logic as CH or CoH, only in reverse. Make the range the same as Chain Heal (5 yards?). Adjust the numbers to balance as needed.

In PVP, make the buff dispellable. Also, due to the 5yd range, it won't break CC all of the time.

Negg · 09/30/08, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by Kirion

It's either we leave charges consuming part or adding cd. Imp WS will proc from ~70% of CH casts.

I said it needs an internal cooldown IF IWS would work with CH, plz read

Wylt · 09/30/08, 3:01 PM

I wish I was in Beta to post this but I'm not, so... here are my novice thoughts on the rogue talent trees. I know, I know... I'm just another rogue with an opinion on the matter. You don't have to click the link

War Tools :: Talent tree Wylt's Rogue

Buanna · 09/30/08, 6:51 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Do we know the value of C for misses?

I'm wondering that myself.

Hulabaloon · 09/30/08, 8:29 PM

Originally Posted by Resiana

Build 9014
- Infusion of Light: Got nerfed, it only reduce the casting time of Holy Light by 0.5/1 sec now.

Blizzard giveth raid mobillity, and Blizzard taketh away. Now we're back where we started. Great.

Khab · 09/30/08, 11:03 PM

I have an idea : Whirlwind doing Shield Dmg as well.

That mean the Prot Warrior while not tanking can jump to Beserker Stance, doing Shield Slam, Devastate and Whirlwind dmg with a 1H weapon and a Shield

The idea that Dev team trying to make Fury mean hit stuffs with 2 Weapon, Prot = hit stuff with a Shield is nice, but currently Prot warrior DPSing while not tanking rely on Devastate and Heroic Strike only and plus Warrior DW 2 1H weapon for DPS while not tanking.

When Whirlwind, the Warrior twisting around and hit stuff with both of his weapon, and Shield Slam can count as a Weapon as well. Whirlwind will do Shield Block Value dmg(as weapon dmg) , dmg from a Shield with Whirlwind will be lower than Shield Slam dmg and Whirldwind don't have 15% Extra Crit from Talent, so this new change to Whirlwind to do Shield Dmg and Weapon won't make the DPS from Prot Warrior too OP.

Just some extra nice Idea about hitting stuff hard and harder with Shield as Prot Warrior.

sirinsa · 09/30/08, 11:05 PM

Regrowth glyph got the nerf stick:

Glyph of Regrowth - Increases the healing of your Regrowth spell by 20% if your Regrowth effect is still active on the target. (Old - Increases the amount of your initial Regrowth heal by 50% if your Regrowth effect is still active on the target.)

Kind of expected. Oh well.

Keldin · 10/01/08, 1:51 AM

This is just plain wrong. BM will probably still reign supreme and survival will be the gimp side-spec for those who want a different play style. MM burns mana like a bushfire. Nonconstructive as this comment may be - fuck this.