Thread of Ultimate Suck - Page 40

Nozz · 11/04/08, 1:38 PM

And as far as speccing goes, is this a viable build?

gouldukat · 11/04/08, 2:09 PM

Sorry to come here ppl to post this, but i see the EU forum pretty ignored from the class mechanics problem, if someone can help me to get this inside the US forum and get read by Ghostcrawler it can be much appreciated, tnx.
Sorry but i cant post a new thread for this so i need to beg a post inside a thread already started i feal sorry for this too.

my post in eu forum:
pala forum
suggestion one

quote of Ghostcrawler post:
blue blizzard post

Ghostcrawler
5) Will problems such as lack of MS debuffs, interrupts, distance closing, and susceptibility to mana burns/silences be addressed?

Mana burns - yes.
Distance closing and interrupts - we are considering giving Ret or paladins in general some new utility to make up for all the nerfs we have made to their damage. It will almost certanly not be MS though. You can find a thread where I recently attempted to explain why we don't want to give out more MS debuffs.
I haven't heard a lot of silence complaints from paladins recently (more than normal I mean). Is this a new problem? Care to elaborate?

There is a silence problem for both protection and retribution paladin, some of our skill are flagged physical and some are flagged spells, pls convert all this in physical so we can dps/tank in an aoe silence like Mother Shahraz event, or allot of old trash and other ...

skill not subjected by silence are :
Crusader Strike
Divine Storm
Hammer of the Righteous

skill subjected on silence effect and who break dps/tank mechanics are:
Judgment
Holy Shield
Divine Shield

unknow if Shield of Righteous is affected from it too atm we don't have the skill yet.

other problem who me prot pala is more concerned is PLS PLS put Holy Shield out of global cool down ! is a problem to tailor a tank rotation on it because or you wait 1+sec doing nothing waiting for it or you come 1+sec after is beneficial effect gone off.

the spell got already hes cool down, and work like the warrior shield block who is out of global cool down making the warrior capable to keep it up every cool down when the fight require the maximum block ( like all boss ).

TNX all and elitistjerk too for help

Sais · 11/04/08, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by turbozmike

I dunno if this is the place to put this but I’ve worked out a build I think is superior to 5/51/5.
I am mostly kara geared, no epic gems, nothing horribly awesome about my gear unfortunately, but I haven’t been playing WOW as long as most of you. I’ve spent lots of time on the training dummies, in heroics and raids testing and reviewing recount data and this is what I managed to get the highest consistently repeatable dps every time.

11/50/0
The 5 points in relentless strikes is no longer needed with 3 points in ruthlessness. I find ruthlessness along with a SS glyph generates combo points so much faster that the lower energy regen is a total non issue. I also use a S&D glyph.

I am able to keep rupture and S&D up 100% of the time and have enough left to throw in the occasional evis or enven without having anything drop.

In a kara raid or just about any heroic I average 930-1050 dps
During my daily quests on the Island alone I get 745-800 dps.

With the changes to killing spree in the 3.0.3 patch IBM going to test 10/51/0

I'm not good with all the math, but I know someone brought up this same topic several pages back and was quickly trounced by multitudes of data supporting Relentless Strikes is needed. Its good that your trying different things, but you really need to log a whole ton of hours worth of data and post the math supporting your claims. There are people on this thread that have been going through all of this since the beta, so you have a lot of catching up to do.

Sais · 11/04/08, 2:11 PM

Originally Posted by Kjallstrom

I'm rogue class leader for a casual raiding alliance, but I'm getting more into the theorycrafting myself. So far, we don't enforce particular talent specs, although I do "have a talk" with players who have totally random talent selections (as opposed to one of the several commonly acknowledged "builds"). Our raiding progression definitely slowed down going into 2.3; part of that was a numbers game, and part of that was getting to fights where one or two people screwing up, irrespective of class or role, (e.g. Teron) could wipe the raid.

Are there any "lolspec" builds I should watch out for as obvious rejects in a PvE context? In my own experience it seems like the hit from switching to Mutilate or Deep Subtlety is significant, but maybe not big enough to ruin a player's fun in a casual context.

Do you know the order the glyph proc chance is calculated when combined with Seal Fate? For example, if you've talented 5/5 into Seal Fate, does that mean you have a 100% chance to get two CPs and a 50% chance to get a third CP on a crit? What if you're only partially talented into Seal Fate, say 2/5 (I realize this is a stupid build, but I think the example is illustrative)... does that mean you have a 40+50=90% chance of generating two CPs always, or the more complicated distribution of having a 40% and then a 50% chance (thus also giving a 20% chance of getting 3 CPs)?

In general, this seems like a good glyph to have, especially given how our crit chance increases when fully buffed.

I have no idea about the Seal Fate question. Thats above my head. I just read this forum and try to understand what everyone is saying.

Shauku · 11/04/08, 4:07 PM

Zones and Quests
I thought the zones were much better than vanilla zones but after Hellfire they really dipped in quality. I felt like the Nagrand Arena quest line was the best non-instanced content that shipped. It was fun, had a good rewards and easy to access. The itemization on your base quests was really bad though. You get the same slot rewards over and over again as you progress through your leveling quests.

5-man content
I really enjoyed most of the instances they put out. I think that zones like Magister's Terrace are great. As a whole the 5 man content jumped in quality more than any part of the game for me. The Arena fight in Magister's is just a great encounter. If you were stuck without raiding previously you really got a lot more content with heroics. I think they feel stale/easy now because the freebie epics that the badge system gave out over time.

Raids
I really disliked the attunement order at the start of TBC. I feel like if Gruul/Mag hadn't be so hard to start and guilds forced to doing Karazhan after aimed at 40 man raids in vanilla the progression would of been a lot more fun. I think the idea they had that early BT/Hyjal bosses were rewards for beating Kael was very bad. I think opening up that content and tier 6 badge epics really made raiding for masses too easy until the brick wall that sunwell was in comparison. I liked the 10 man raids in general but i feel like ZA kinda got lost because it's itemization outside of Zul'jin and the chests. It seemed like it existed to spit out bear mounts for progressed guilds and be ignored by guilds that probably should of been more interested in a post karazhan raid.

PvP
The Arena is a great idea. The win trading, "Smurfing", reroll teams where you play gladiator's at 1700 much too frequently was very bad. The rating system really fails when you can reset it so easily. I think the PVP game bleeding into PVE was terrible as well. Almost every melee i know used S1/S2 weapons at some point and usually for most of the xpac.

Professions
I really liked where they went with them in TBC and even more with WoTLK. Having all professions give rewards might be a little more bland but everything being useful is very nice.

Best and Worst
Best was probably Magister's Terrace and Karazhan for me. The worst part of xpac was probably the status of raids and the 360 degree cleaves early on.

turbozmike · 11/04/08, 4:34 PM

Your right, On a spread sheet relentless strikes is better.
5/51/5 is 35.29 dps better.

Ill admit I dont understand all of the spread sheet stuff we have available. Like I said, Im reasonably new to WOW.
11/50/0 seems more playable though but like you said its moot in 1 week so I guess it doesnt matter.

Goldengiff · 11/04/08, 6:34 PM

Have the forum rules changed for these threads? It seems like 90% of the post are people who don't bother to read the thread or use the search function, and regular posters are answering their questions instead of telling them to find the info that is already avaliable. It's particularly anoying when I come here for constructive conversation and see 2 pages of people posting asking what Muti spec to use, what daggers to use, what poisons to use, why this spec they think is better works because they saw large numbers, etc. That stuff used to be regulated so we could have really constructive conversation here.

So, did the forum rules change? or are people being really really nice because until 80 nothing really matters?

Contalyst · 11/04/08, 7:29 PM

As I've skimmed thru this whole post in clumps and at varying pages, I've seen the question of Haste, and how it affects dps when gemmed... I however have yet to see any response remotely answering that question. Now I'm not up to snuff on the search bar and usually get shoddy results, so I'll pose it again.

What is the AEP approx of Haste and at what point at the curent lvl 70 cap(i know its a week more but it'll affect the first lvls to 80 at least) does it become beneficial to start regemming, if ever, to haste. I cannot figure how to judge this in the Spreadsheet so any info on how to do that or a direct as possible response would be very insightful.

I am currently in badge/t5/t6 gear running 5/51/5 badge fists.

Bl� tz · 11/04/08, 11:02 PM

yea, i play as sword because i believe that a clutch proc can win a game. This, for me, makes the games more exciting, but if your a player that enjoys consistent performance, i'd suggest going mace

Bl� tz · 11/04/08, 11:05 PM

I think that while yes this e-sport is highly based on lucky crits/procs, if a person is bad at WoW, he/she will not excel in the game. what im trying to say is that it still takes skill and should still be considered a legitimate e-sport

Bl� tz · 11/04/08, 11:10 PM

id go orc if the stun resist thing is true, although warstomp was always a fun oh-shit button of mine.
And if your an Rp-er with character models like i am i think that with high end gear, orcs look the shit lol
but thats just me

Bl� tz · 11/04/08, 11:12 PM

i leveled up this char on RAC xp, took me 2 days played to hit 70.
if you have ever said "wow i really want to level up _______, but i dont want to take the time to hit 70 all over again,
i would get it done now considering that the RAC thing goes away come WotLK

Arakan · 11/04/08, 11:20 PM

Time to make my little list on this one:

Zones and Quests
The first time that I did Outland, I was mainly concerned with not dying on my puny mage. Mobs hit me hard, and mana was scarce if I were to stay alive. I must say I was still an inexperienced player back than, but it was doable.
Currently I just finished off leveling my 6th 70, a hunter, post patch, and there was an immense difference from the first 70. On previous characters I was capable to skip one zone I didn't like, but was forced to do the others. This time I just skipped Terrokar and BeM completely, leveling to 70 in Netherstorm before I touched Shadowmoon Valley.

Nagrand however, was the most lovable zone. Not due to quest stacking, which was decent, but not as awesome as Zangarmarsh Quest stacking. But the atmosphere. Big grassy hill, sunny ruins here an there. Deep valleys with Rivers running through em. I can still walk around in Nagrand for an hour and not get bored by the landscape.

The big contrast with this is Blade's Edge Mountains. While Netherstorm isn't really inspirational to me, BeM hurts my eyes. It's dry, a few almost straight Plateaus and lots of nasty mobs. Quests were very hard to reach within a efficient time frame if you didn't have a flying mount. I realized after my first character leveled through there, that I didn't want to come back for leveling there.

5-men content
The dungeons themselves are fine in my eyes. And just that, fine. The normal versions were playable, and had decent rewards for their place in the leveling cycle. The later dungeons, Auchenai Crypts and Sethekk halls were good to run, with AC probably being a bit too hard for the average player. I do see the amount of dungeons as a small problem, as especially later in the expansion, few people run them while leveling.

The level 70 dungeons were very doable, though their rewards were early overshadowed by both the ease of access to pvp gear, and later the addition of a lot of great Badge gear. Almost no-one runs them these days, and getting a new character through them for the Reputation for Heroic versions is despite the lowering of key requirements not as easy as it looks for the average player.

The heroics were for me a great addition. It gives the bored player something to do, and theres almost always a group to one of them. They might have become very easy, especially with the patch, but they are still fun to do. I get badges from them, and for a new character some random half-decent blues as well. However, as Ill say with pvp, the PvP gear quickly overshadowed their usefulness.

Raids
Having a late start in raiding on a backwater server, raiding was a great experience. It was great finally getting Kael'thas down, and entering Mount Hyjal for the first time. Raids have given me a lot of joy and frustration. The step down from 40 man to 25 man did have it's toll on our server though. Most of it fell to the blame of guild drama. It was often hard to maintain a raiding force capable of actually doing some encounters. Especially when the content started taking its toll on personal performance. Making the encounters demand more made raids a lot more reliant on having skilled players, and a lot less on having a group of friends together.

The hardest part for me was when Arena gear started becoming available for Honor and marks. We lost a lot of the average raiders to pvp at that time. They didn't turn up, and would just farm their gear outside of raid time, just because it was easier. Those average players that we needed to fill a proper raids stopped turning up, or went to lower tier, more social guilds. We were left with our raiding core, and those that underperformed, and would have recieved a kick if we had the average players to replace them.

PvP

For me this had ruined more than guild drama. It was devastating to take your first T5 shoulders to a Battleground, and being smashed to the ground by anyone that had taken the time to afk 10 matches a week. It was that easy to get the gear. I refused to do that though, which I maybe should have done for my sanity, but seeing everyone in your Raid gear graphics acquired for a lot less effort (from a officer point of view, not the afk raider) than you had put into yours.

Having to do PvP to acquire the best in slot weapons (those that never drop in raids) was also not a fun thing.

Best and Worst

I think my post has mostly my negative highlights, as somehow I remember those the best. It could have also been that my positive highlights were personal, less game design driven. All in all I enjoyed this expansion more than vanilla, as it was all more accessible to get start with.

The only thing I don't want to see in the next expansion, is a Maghteridon that clicks his own cubes.

urizen · 11/05/08, 6:17 AM

Here is mine.
Inspired by Wrath. Still tryin to learn to use kgPanels to show n rezie on raidframes

Ingmar · 11/05/08, 7:32 AM

Zones and Quests
Questing experience is hard to judge, at first things were so crowded that every place you had to kill something was overfarmed and later on you’d come to the conclusion that you’d better not have done certain quests because of reputation (CE plant parts anyone?). My alts just breezed through it all in the proper order, doing everything right, the fastest way. Also no proper view.

Daily quests were fun at first (Netherwing/Skyguard only offering a cooler mount and a pet was great!), but got more and more mandatory with the new cooking/fishing dailies which got you better food recipes and even annoying to me when they were required to get the island base setup.

The revered heroic grind obviously was a mistake, factions like Kurenai/Consortium were “ok”, as you could choose to grind them or not. Having 1 faction on revered mandatory (proper head-enchant for your class+spec) was fine.

5-men content
5-mans were quite fun. Especially Black Morass was a great one. Some of them added to the lore, others felt useless and unconnected. What I really missed was some sort of 5-man connected to BT/Illidan.

Heroics were obviously tuned too hard at the start, but what made them not-fun was the trails of the naaru questline. It made them an obligation to run, and then run again for your guildmates and again with a non-cc DPS class… which indeed, was very hard and annoying.

The badge system was fine at first, ok’ish with the second wave of gear and just ridiculous in the end. Getting the best bow pre-SW from badges is just stupid, badge gear should be comparable but always slightly inferior in my opinion.

Raids
Raiding itself was fun to me in BC. All the strings attached to it at the start was not (Trials, meh), but then, when you finally did all of that you just got kicked in the nuts by Blizzard when they just removed the attunements. Some of it was overtuned at the start (anyone remember Aran without 2 locks pre-nerf?) and most of it got nerfed into the ground. I guess the dates on achievements will add more value for the true “oldskool” kills in the future. All in all I think raiding was a failure in BC, by first eliminating a lot of the playerbase (attunements / pvp gear), then nerfing the content (feeling of lost pride) and attunement lifting (3/4 TK, 5/6 SSC, 3/5 MH guild LF more raiders…) and in the end just completely trivializing every raid instance (I mean, I seriously pugged Illidan last Monday…).

Going from 40 to 25 was a disaster because of the forced 10-man before that. It totally ruined guilds and I’m glad they learned from it for LK with a proper entry level 10 and 25-man instance version.

Loot distribution was fine except for the Tier 4 being in both 10 and 25-men instances.

Outdoor bosses were fun at the start but basically neglected after that. Nobody really cared.

Class balance in PvE has shifted around a lot, but over the entire BC era resto-shamans were basically way overpowered in high-end raidstacking.

PvP
What do you think about the introduction of Arenas? Do you feel it added to the game or just diluted it. What do you
Arena was neat. The idea is great, but got polluted at first by rogues/warriors getting their “free-s2” swords and got worse when rating sellers came along in S3. It just destroyed the core of arena and took away a lot of the fun in it.

Battlegrounds… EOTS was fun, for 2-3 weeks. After that it just was a bump in the road to get those 40 marks for my boots for the 4th time. Which wasn’t really a problem with Battlegrounds, but rather with arena’s requiring you to do the same BG grinds over and over again every season.

PvP balance was horrible. Being a hunter and thus being last in line on every bracket every season it just sucked to have to work twice as hard as any warrior, rogue or druid to get to decent ratings.

Professions
Professions improved in BC, yes. But unfortunately not all. Tailoring was just stupidly overpowered, lasting into tier 6, which was boring for those classes that just “had” to roll it because it was the best in slot (FSW boots had no replacement until tier 6 boots). Blacksmithing seemed ok’ish in terms of lasting weapons (although a SW recipe drop would have been nice) and a bit underpowered in the armorsmithing section. Jewelcrafting was probably the best developed in BC, being viable at selling power (every item requiring new gems), drops (MH recipies), BoP perks (JC only gems) and items (trinkets/SWP necks). Alchemy got nerfed a lot, and later on got mandatory for nearly every healer serious about raiding. LW was just retarded when drum-rotations got required, but was ok in terms of interest besides the drums, the leg-patches for sales and the BOP SSC and SWP recipes did ok for it. Engineering just got forgotten again, being way too hard to level at first and the epic helms too little, too late. The 28crit scopes are a 1-class perk and it was the only drop in an instance pre-SWP. The mote-extractor was the only nice thing (but boring being a gathering item rather than a crafting one) about this profession throughout TBC until you got the SWP helm recipe. Trinkets were very underwhelming and hardly any fun and after disabling the boots in arena’s the profession just got near worthless. To me it seems Jewelcrafting got some of the trinkets that Engineering should have had (or something like a new fire/shadowreflector would have been nice from BT rep).

Gathering professions didn’t change so they just remained a boring way of making money.

Best and Worst
Best: Kael’Thas encounter. Challenging and complex, yet doable in many setups.
Worst: T6-quality for kara-badges, PvP balance, 3.02 instance nerf.

Maddette · 11/05/08, 8:56 AM

Right ... now DW Arms is kinda out the window.

Is it back to 2h Arm or TG fury for PvE?

Advice is welcome

motomower · 11/05/08, 10:36 AM

* Glyph of Strength of Earth has been removed.
* Glyph of Earth Elemental Totem has been removed.
* Glyph of Totem of Wrath has been removed.
* *Added* Glyph of Lava Lash - Damage on your Lava Lash is increased by an additional 10% if your weapon is enchanted with Flametongue.
* *Added* Glyph of Lava - Your Lava Burst spell gains an additional 10% of your spellpower
* *Added* Glyph of Elemental Mastery - Reduces the cooldown of your Elemental Mastery ability by 30 sec.
* Glyph of Flame Shock - Increases the duration of your Flame Shock ability by 6 sec and it is not consumed by casting Lava Burst. (Old - 3 seconds, didn't prevent Lava Burst from consuming it)

After that change, wich glyph is better in place of Glyph of Earth Elemental Totem

Christmanspunch · 11/05/08, 7:55 PM

I have some questions for you guys.

What do you think will be better dps for leveling in WOTLK?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12050120501051

or

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12050120501040

It's basically titan's grip vs impale.

I was planning on going with the titan's grip build then respec'ing to this at 72.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12050120501051

Or should I spec arms? Tell me what you think.

Oops. Correction to my talent builds. I'd get 3/3 blood craze instead of 5/5 commanding presence for less downtime.

esco · 11/05/08, 11:43 PM

I just reactivated my account and wow i'm so lost. It's like i've never played hunter before. So, the only shot rotation that BM's use these days is steady shot spam? Doesn't sound so exciting. Do yall manually weave in any other shots? Serpent sting, maybe? If anyone could help me out that would be great. It's like playing a whole new game now.

Wimpface · 11/06/08, 12:28 AM

Saitek II Eclipse

Logitech G9

Expensive, but well worth it!

Sh4d0wM4ZT3R · 11/06/08, 4:38 AM

Logitech Elite

Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical

I never really understood why people need more than 5 buttons in a mouse. :P

Waveryn · 11/06/08, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Rokel

Open Ventrilo then click on setup, click on the global tab. On this page tick the box for Logitech game panel LCD support (G15). To see the ventrilo information press the black button under the screen to tab to the correct display showing Ventrilo - 1.

Thank You, sounds easy enough.

honorstrike · 11/06/08, 1:35 PM

ah, i hadnt considered the SoM procs off the other attacks...that pretty much clears it up, thanks!

relax_ok · 11/06/08, 4:28 PM

Its official, until they nerf it... tricks of the trade and a crit stacking group with eviscerate glyph is the best dps in the game.

Wow Web Stats

Yes that's level 70. No he's not really combat obviously, check armory.

4700 dps.. 40% of that damage is eviscerate, almost 60% eviscerate crit raidbuffed with glyph.

Constant CP generation from the group, he almost didn't have to even use any CP builders (only a couple hemos in 137 seconds).

Eviscerate spam ftw.

Thoughts? Does this method somehow tail off at 80? i doubt it but..

Reeshet · 11/06/08, 5:56 PM

What about using the Flame shock glyph which makes it last six seconds longer and not consumed by Lava Burst?

It seems to me it would make quite a difference being able to do an extra Earth Shock in a FS->ES->ES rotation.