Originally Posted by SneakerXZ

Tooltip has been fixed in today build so it reduces CD by 2.5sec.

Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle

my surpriseometer isn't registering anything here
is it broken

Originally Posted by Ashere

Actually, only the 4 other members of your group, since those are the only ones whos crits actually feed you CP's. For the rest, they'll take advantage of the same raidbuffs you do.
But what would be a much quicker solution, is if someone developed a simple addon, which works similar to recount, in that it collects combat data, but from that combat data only takes the ability crits and avarages those out on a per second basis.
Next, add an input field in the calculators for avarage CP feed/sec for your group, and if you generally play within the same group, you'll have a nice avarage figure from the addon to use here. Just rerun the addon regularly to keep the figure for your spreadsheet up to date with gear and spec changes, and the spreadsheet should give a fair ballpark figure. Not as exact as the figures for combat or mutilate builds, but at least good estimates.

Originally Posted by zabuza6

A good thing we could try to attempt would be a spreadsheet model that would take an example combatlog/wws breakdown as input. Something that would use the frequency of finishers/hemos/white damage/poison procs. The spreadsheet could then figure out aep values from increasing the stats of the person using the spreadsheet. i.e. if the person gained 1ap, how much more damage would they have done given they did x eviscerates, y hemos, z white attacks, and w poison attacks. This would largely work around the issue of having to deal with the "burstiness" of incoming CP's, it would just rely on the the person from the parse being competent.

An inital sheet could just hard-code a parse from a reasonable fight, but allowing people to plug in their logs would be the most ideal here, really. Some people may run with a different set of HaT rogues/non-hat rogues/hunters/warriors/mages, and would give aep values very tailored to them, including whether they are taking advantage of the bug. Additionally, you could plug in new logs as your group-mates gear improves and they start to crit more.

Of course, increasing your own crit will effectively change the relative frequencies of eviscerates and hemos, much moreso for non-bugged HaT than bugged HaT. The spreadsheet could have some way of the user plugging in the additional value they place on crit, in addition to the extra damage from their attacks. Expertise also works this way, but the sheet could assume the rogue is expertise capped. The main question I want to ask is how crappy hit/haste are for non-HaT rogues. It's clear you want to avoid it like the plague for bugged HaT, but not necessarily for non-bugged HaT. Additionally, does armor pen beat hast/hit for unbugged HaT?

It's too bad I don't really have the time to look into this, or the excel expertise to be able to get this kind of info into a sheet from a parse, but it seems the best way to tackle the problem personally. I may take the route of hard-coding the number of attacks from a good patchwork I've had, and see how far I can get with it, but it would require more research than I'd like on my end, I've never rolled my own spreadsheet in any way.

Sidenote: Is there a good resource anywhere that has all the equations one might need for calculating ap scaling for various attacks, what parts of haste are multiplicative/additive, armor damage reduction equations, and all the other random oddities one would need to worry about? I can find it all individually, but if there's a resource somewhere with it all in a central location that would be amazingly helpful.

Originally Posted by Muadibz

This is the UI I created for my DK. Most of it should be pretty standard.

Unitframes: XPerl
Bars: Bartender
Spell Cool down: OmniCC
Disease / Horn Time: NeedToKnow
Chat Boxes: Chatter
Map: Sexymap

and then obviously Omen and Recount. You can't see it in this screen shot unfortunately but I use SCT to tell me when Sudden Doom procs as well as my trinkets.

Originally Posted by daphnestar

# [Gown of Blaumeux] (Naxx10) 241 dps
# [Valorous Plagueheart Robe] (Naxx25) 238 dps
# [Heigan's Putrid Vestments] (Naxx25) 236 dps

Does the list take into account socket choices? I don't see how Gown of Blaumeux could be better than Heigan's Putrid Vestments!

Originally Posted by Arantar

The spreadsheet available here in this forum, made and maintained by landsoul, should suit you well Cormac. You can find it here: http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t37462-f...n_spreadsheet/

Originally Posted by frmorrison

HoW, Judgement, Avenger's Shields and Shield of Righteous are our ranged attacks.

It seems nice that we could get double procs from the Grim Tool, since Armor pen is so weak for us, getting even more of it helps it become better!

Originally Posted by Kalle

I actually had a look at the different gearsets that are (according to my research) optimal with the current itemisation. I computed a gain of ~69 dps (or 1.30%) if you need 3% less hit.

As you already said, the only other place you could spend the affliction talent points is (if not threat-capped) fel concentration. Because of lacking an estimate of fel concentration's worth I will simply assume that it cancels with the reduced mana cost you also get from supression and concentrate on destruction talents ;-)

Candidates for the additional points in the destruction tree are isb and molten core (and maybe eradication if you didn't take 3 points there).

Eradication:
There seems to be some dispute on what is the correct way to calculate the time between procs. I'll use iCD+dt*(1/p -1), where dt is the time between corruption ticks and p the procchance. So:
1/3 2.35% increased casting speed
2/3 3.44% increased casting speed
3/3 4.21% increased casting speed
As eradication is multiplicative with haste and reduced casting time results in more time to cast your filler spell, that's an increase of 2.35/3.44/4.21% of your filler dps. According to simulationcraft, filler dps (= sb+ds) is 45% of your total dps, so we're looking at an overall increase of 1.06/1.55/1.89%

ISB:
Well, that's difficult. It's quite likely that you cannot cast four sbs before the debuff expires. That's why I'll again use data from simulationcraft: With 40.8% destro crit, it computes that 72% of the spells benefit from isb. So we have an increase of 1.44% of your direct shodow damage (= sb+haunt) per point. Direct shadow damage is (using simcraft results again) 31% of your total dps, so we get an overall increase of 0.45% per talent point. But since from 25% HP you don't cast sbs anymore (ignoring nightfall), we have to multiply with ~0.79 (according to our latest wws it took 79% of the length of the fight to get patchwerk to 25% HP) and get 0.35%.

Molten Core:
We can't use the same formula as with eradication because as mc's internal CD is shorter than the duration of the buff (it has no CD), it can proc again before the old buff has expired. At any point in time, the chance that the debuff is up is equal to the chance that there was at least one proc in the last 12s. So we need to know the (average) amount of effects in 12s that can proc mc. This time I use results from the "Dots and you"-thread. It states that you can cast 15.26 sbs per minute in addition to recasting DoTs+haunt. So that's approx. 30 CoA ticks, 20 corruption ticks, 20 UA ticks, 20 siphon life ticks, ~6 haunts and 15.26 sbs per minute, or 22.25 shadow damage effects in 12s. I assume immolate is casted only before 25% HP because thats what simcraft does by default and I don't know if drain soul procs mc. MC uptime:
1/3 1-0.95^22.25 = 68.02%
2/3 1-0.9^22.25 = 90.41%
3/3 1-0.85^22.25 = 97.31%
Using simcraft again, immolate (glyphed, but not using it <25% HP) is 6% of your total dps, so we get an overall increase of 0.41/0.54/0.58%.

I'll call the dps you do with this spec 'base_dps'. It has eight points left which can be distributed between isb, mc, cataclysm and eradication (which already has one). I call the number of points in mc 'm', in isb 'i' and in cataclysm 'c'. The dps will be (ignoring reduction of mana cost from cataclysm):
dps = base_dps*[1+c*0.013/3]*[1+i*0.0035]*[1+(m>2)?0.0058m>1)?0.0054m>0)?0.0041:0]*[1+(8-c-i-m>2)?0.01898-c-i-m>1)?0.01558-c-i-m>0)?0.0106:0]
using the ternary conditional operator a?b:c, that evaluates to b if a is true and to c if a is false (sorry, can't think of a better way to write this). I get the maximum dps with 1/3 molten core, 2/5 isb, 3/3 cataclysm and 2/3 eradication.

Feel free to point out all the errors/bad assumptions I've made. The differences to the previous posts seems to be caused by different mc&isb uptimes.

Originally Posted by Boevis

Being specced for KotJ, I time Barkskin with Enrage to partly offset the loss in armor on a few bosses. Malygos and Sartharion I use Barkskin on Breaths (alternating as many cooldowns as possible with my healers for S+3). On KT I save barkskin for possible Iceblocks, Pre-web wrap on Maexxna, Enraged Grand Widow, Loatheb's Dooms, and I can take a 6th Mark if necessary on 4H. Basically, if a fight has a high Burst Damage ability that you can accurately use Barkskin to diminish (be it a cast time ability, or simply known from Bigwigs/DBM timers) you should do so, simply using it every cooldown can result in a wipe if you're ignoring a big burst (I can't stress the use of it on KT's Iceblocks enough if your melee are idiots) and many of these abilities occur close to 1m timer anyway (Doom, Marks, Enrage) , so once you get used to using Barkskin to get through the first one, using it on cooldown after that practically guarantees you'll get the rest of the abilities.