[Help me please] Rocvering from Emo/Terribad Main Tank Syndrome

landsoul · 07/08/08, 3:54 PM

Removed due to drama-mongering on realm forums

Charsi · 07/08/08, 4:10 PM

Well, let me start with the obvious question: what do you need a Protection Warrior for? We have recently been hit with a similar situation (emoquit) and i'm filling in the tank duties. With two solid Ferals and a solid Prot Paladin i'm largely unnecessary except for tanking Void Sentinels at M'uru and perhaps as first tank on Kalecgos.

Are your Ferals adverse to double-teaming things?

• Shifft · 07/08/08, 4:11 PM

You can tank almost anything in Sunwell with solely feral druids and prot paladins. The only thing a warrior is actually amazing for is tanking sentinels on M'uru, and you're a warrior, so you could do that.

Hanos · 07/08/08, 4:19 PM

Originally Posted by landsoul

Do we wait for the timer on Warrior B to run out and eventually remove him from raiding/guild, or are we better off putting up with his lackluster skill/bullshit for the rest of Sunwell? Do we put him in the spotlight until we find a sufficient replacement for Warrior A or should either myself or our old tank who hurts his hands help? I myself have minimal prot gear for sunwell but I raid as 17/44

You are going to have real issues with marginal players (especially tanks) later in the zone, and honestly 17/44 Fury Warriors are basically just bad rogues that require more healing, put out less DPS, and have more constraints. If you want a good long term solution, you respec'ing and possibly picking up gear for both specs is the ideal solution. There is nothing to say you can't go Fury on half the fights and prot on the others, but if you are already running an Arms Warrior, it really doesn't make sense to bring a Fury Warrior if you could bring a rogue... no reason to make the game harder then it needs to be, and could fill a valuable and necessary role. Short of doing what EJ has done, recruiting MT's normally ends poorly.

Anedris · 07/08/08, 4:23 PM

And there are M'uru strats (and kills) that use a protadin to tank sentinels and spawns, thus freeing up a tank spot for an additional DPSer/healer (although that strat does make keeping the sentinel tank alive considerably harder).

In my experience (at least with my own guild) you're probably better off confronting and ditching (or just demoting to a non-raiding rank if you have one of those) mediocre or drama-prone players (though it can be a very hard thing to do, especially when they've been in the guild for a long time). People will (usually) be happier raiding with a slightly gimped composition but with 24 other people they trust rather than raiding with a few people who they really would rather not be playing with, or who they can plainly see aren't up to par in terms of skill.

I would put up a recruitment post for a prot warrior, be extremely picky in choosing applicants to try out, but not worry too much if you don't get any promising bites for a long time. As long as your other three tanks (the druids and the protadin) aren't missing raids you should do fine without a warrior tank.

Tyrian · 07/08/08, 4:30 PM

I dont really like the idea of EJ being a refuge for "Help me with our guilds personal problems!" quiz fest . However, if the spirit of ur post is reworded into a broader "How do I manage key members of a raiding guild in Sunwell" with regards to problems like you mentioned - its a very valid topic for discussion.

My main suggestion is to cut your losses early and get rid of the dead wood. Its better sooner than later. Could it be painful and short-term annoying? Possibly. But its better for it to happen now, before you get to M'uru. I do actively encourage our classes to explore the possibility of collecting offset gear and raiding in it when they can't get a raidspot for their main spec.

For example: We have 2 prot paladins, but never tank Brutallus with a paladin. I usually get them to take turns respeccing ret for the night to raid that boss (whilst being elibable for tank loot). Do you always sit your warrior for double-druid? Yes that would suck, of course people can get upset over that. Did you offer him to get raidspots as DPS spec sometimes, to make up for it? Do you *need* double druid, or can you alternate and do warrior+druid combos every other week?

Theres alot to be said for helping and listening to players with their needs and concerns with regards to raid spots. But there also comes a point where players must accept and respect Officers decisions. People who just kick up a stink and cause trouble - get them out of the guild sooner, or you'll regret it later. Nobody is saying its easy to recruit or find good players - we all know its not - but its still something I think needs to be done.

Suesse · 07/08/08, 4:30 PM

Originally Posted by Charsi

what do you need a Protection Warrior for?

Sunder, Thunderclap, and Demo (demo to a lesser degree, but still better than bear version particularly with CoR up).

Has anyone put in the work to model how much is lost by the gcds and rage for fury and arms warriors using these abilities? Thunderclap is a big deal because it necessitates the battle stance. How much is lost when resists occur?

Kaubel · 07/08/08, 4:37 PM

We honestly don't need threads like this.