Now that 3.1 is officially here, its time to start taking data and analyzing it. From the input gathered over the past few days, I've decided on three bosses from whom parses will be accepted: Ignis, XT-002 Deconstructor and Freya. Freya may be removed after we see more of the fight, but for the time being I want something that will be a reliable measure of AoE dps. I may also add in Auriaya, but until I see that fight, I'm going to hold off.

As with the previous thread, please do not post your parses/information in this thread; you'll only clog up any meaningful discussion that might be taking place. Send it to me as a PM instead. Furthermore, I would like for this place to be an analysis of the parses and data that we will be collection, not a discussion about the finer points of each spec. That means no discussions about what rotation works best, what talents to pick etc. Rather, focus your discussion on figuring out why a particular spec/rotation combo is working better than others and take that information back to the various theorycrafting threads.

Unlike the previous incarnation of this thread, I'm not going to initially split up the parses by time. It's a lot of work to do so and I don't feel that it will be worth it at this stage in the proceedings. As time progresses and this becomes farm content, that will change, but for now you're just going to have to deal with it. However, since I will be accepting parses from both the Hard and Normal modes of each boss (note that Ignis only has a normal mode), I will be separating those parses, so as to avoid any unnecessary confusion (though I don't anticipate that being a problem for at least several weeks).

XT-002 Data

DPS	Character	Spec	Rotation	Weapon	Sigil	Glyphs	Runeforges	Consumables	Notes	Parse
7332	Frigidchaos	12/0/59	Standard	Betrayer	Awareness	Ghoul - SS - DD	FC	Flask		Wow Web Stats
7284	Vhalkor	51/0/20	IT PS HS HS DS RP	Betrayer	Awareness	DD - DS	FC	Armor Pots+Flask+Str Food		WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish
6309	Nymshe	0/10/61	IT PS BS BS SS RP SS	Betrayer	Awareness	Ghoul - SS - DD	FC	Flask+Str Food	3 Bombs	WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish
6299	Kawashima	00/10/61	Standard	Death's Bite	Arthritic Binding	Ghoul - SS - DD		Flase+Great Feast	-	WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish
6291	Kaneika	51/0/20	IT PS HS HS DS RP	Death's Bite	Awareness	DRW - DS - DD	FC	Flask+Str Food	AotD for Heart - 2 Bombs	XT-002 Deconstructor : Kaneika
6258	Baalzamon	17/51/3	IT PS OB BS BS FS FS OB OB IT PS	Jawbone	Awareness	OB - FS- IT	FC	Flask+Great Feast	Unholy Presence	WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish
6078	Bsiddiq	51/2/18	IT PS HS HS DS RP	Betrayer	Awareness	HS - DD - DS	FC	Flask+Fish Feast		WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish
5957	Synovial	12/0/59	SS BS BS SS RP SS SS SS RP	Betrayer	Awareness	Ghoul - SS - DD	FC	Flask+Fish Feast	1 Bomb	WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Finally, when sending me a PM, please include the following information, in this order:

1. Boss
2. Character name and armory link
3. Spec used (if it's uncommon, include a talent calc link)
4. Rotation
5. Weapon(s
6. Sigil
7. Glyphs
8. Runeforge(s)
9. Consumables
10. Any other information you feel may be pertinent
11. Parse link

If you think that there is anymore information that should be collected, please let me know.

EDITS
1 - Mimiron/Razorscale are out.
2 - Vezax out.
3 - Restructuring for initial parses.
4 - Begun Including Data

TO DO
Decide on a final list of raid bosses
Set all the criteria for analysis.

From what I tried in the PTR:

Vezax might well be the closest, as baring a minor need to watch interrupts, this boss allows for uninterrupted dps time.

Mimiron: no way. Not only you have to regularly stop dpsing because of several factors, phase 3 is also an add fest.

Razorscale: flat out no, its more about add management than boss dps.

Why not keep Patchwerk in the list? It's not like Naxxramas will disappear. And there is no better stationary single target dummy out there.

Also is what you are attempting not already provided by www.wowmeteronline.com (as an example)?

Because I'm guessing most guilds won't be going back and doing Patchwerk on a weekly basis, if at all, just to provide data.

Lots of guilds don't upload data to wowmeteronline, mine included. This is just a different sample of data-- best parses among EJ board frequenters.

As for bosses, the Deconstructor seems possible, and Kologarn does require stationary burst dps on the right arm (though it requires you don't get focused with laser-beams). Haven't done Vezax or Auriaya, obviously.

You're right, Naxx won't disappear. However, no one will run it anymore for anything but gearing up alts. EVERYONE I know who's even moderately serious about raiding and min/maxing in WoW cannot wait to drop Naxx and never look back. As such, it will be hard to get data from the people we want to get data from: the hardcore raiding population.

I am trying to provide a similar feature to wowmeter's rankings. However, this will include data not available through wowmeter (or any parse, for that matter). Namely, the spec used at the time the data was collected, what consumables were used, what rotation, extenuating factors etc. etc. See Finding Top Raid DPS: On Hold till 3.1 (the previous top DPS thread) for an example of such a format.

Your first point is valid to some degree, however I don't think Naxxramas runs will dropp to zero. There will still remain enough chances to test and the results shouldn't be ignored.
Your second point appears to be ignoring the fact that while not all guilds post on wowmeteronline the amount of guilds posting on EJ is even less. Thus, if the Data from wowmeteronline is accepted as trustworthy the data collected here can only act as a supplement.

Kroot's goal of providing a deeper analysis of the combatlogs on the other hand seems like something wowmeteronline does indeed lack.

Kologarn should be out since he is DPS'd from the front, and that would lead to an inordinate amount of Parries (unless he has some special mechanic to prevent this). If Parries are special for him he might actually be a good candidate, since I have read that there are strategies involving just a DPS zerg on his body, ignoring the hands (of course, if someone gets gripped it FUBARs their DPS).

XT-002 Deconstructor sounds like the best candidate for an early boss. The fight is pretty straightforward and he has time based achievements that are really low, leading me to believe he's intended to be the fastest kill once everyone is geared and knows the fight.

Iron Council would be an interesting one; from what I understand Overwhelming Power only hits the tank, and is also only present if you choose to kill Steelbreaker last (the Hard Mode of that encounter). The fight still has a fair bit of movement (into Runes of Power, out of Runes of Death, some tank position switching has been recommended, etc) so it's probably not the best, but could still be decent as the fight will last a bit longer than XT-002.

Vezax looks good as well, though as was already stated it will take a while before those parses start coming in.

I imagine Algalon will want to be recorded too, simply because he will be the hardest boss in the game, and if performance on the hardest boss is far more important (to overall raid success) than some DPS zerg like XT-002 or Patchwerk (though there is still tons of useful data to get from those as well.

I disagree that patchwerk is a good dps check. The real challenge in raiding imo is to maintain good dps (or w/e your role is) while staying alive during a difficult encounter (read: moving around, avoiding fires, etc), not min/maxing an incredibly easy boss that doesn't move or do anything interesting at all to the raid.

Oh, and I for one am lusting after the day when I will never have to see Naxx ever again. Hate that place.

The point of a dps check is to find out what dps certain specs are capable of, which is why Patchwerk was used. If you're looking for a ranking for "most leet performance on a hard fight", you can't really quantify that. This list is to rank specs, not individual players.

Patchwerk was used precisely because you don't move around-- it minimizes other variables. It became a more complicated benchmark, though, when raids could kill him in 90 seconds instead of 6 minutes. Finding an Ulduar benchmark fight means hopefully getting one that is relatively stationary for sustained dps.

Especially because most dps doesnt mean the best raid performance. If i wanted to max my dps at sart, i would simply just kill the adds all the time. If i want to max my dps at heigan, i stay on the platform and dps all the time. So you have to choose a boss which reguires nearly no movement, very less random stuff and in best no special buffs/debuffs.

Vezaxx would come to be the best dps test from those i have seen until now. Little to no movement, the fight really lasts for some time and has pretty much no adds. Problem might be the haste debuff (-20% haste) so its no patchwerk (though it is pretty close and i suppose the debuff wont be such a big difference).

Problem maybe the hardmode/normalmode thing. Hardmode Vezaxx will deliver other results than normal mode (especially considering the length of the fight).

So a boss with no hardmode should be prefered.

From the european testing, no other boss so far is a candidate. Freya has random elements, could have different tactics and finally has of course a lot adds.

I don't think a fight having or not having adds should be a huge issue(not trying to say this makes Freya a good fight for this topic). Any given fight where a majority of the DPS is doing the same thing, requires no movement or movement in unison (ie Sarth had movement, but it was predictable and pretty much everyone had to move the same), and doesn't have some number skewing gimmick (ie Thaddius, Loatheb, Malygos) would work well as a good benchmark fight for OVERALL performance.

Obviously fights with zero movement and 100% un-gimmicked DPS time will be the best for analyzing things in great detail, but there is information to be gained from other kinds of fights as well (Sarth is the perfect example of this: the fight has lots of movement and adds, yet is still worthwhile to examine, and not just because it was the hardest fight in the game).

After the testing that my guild has done i would say that Ignis and Deconstructor are so far the best opportunities for a dps gauge, however ignis is like grobbulus in the sense of he is being moved and deconstructor will have the adds coming to him in phase 2.

Not sure if Ignis is a great benchmark...if we have to use Death Grip on adds (not going to go into detail about it) I suspect it'll obviously impact our DPS. Aside from that, it's a bit heavy on movement, but that's not necessarily a big deal as people have already pointed out.

I would say General Vezax as a bad fight as getting the buff (Ill just leave it at that) means 20k+ fs/ss and 15k+ dc which is spamable during the duration of the buff.

From the Eu testing, cant see any fight as a "replica" of pw. US had better candidates.

Although I've always argued for why PW is a good benchmark, there are a couple reasons why using him or fights like him for comparing between specs might be unwise:

- No movement devalues running speed talents
- No movement overvalues Desecration
- No adds devalue AoE abilities (and as it seems like a lot of boss fights in Ulduar will have adds to deal with, that would be significant)

I think the best benchmark would be one that is similar to most fights in the instance, not the one that you can generate the highest single number from.

Bsiddiq, my impression was that the adds can easily be handled by the tanks assigned to them since Ignis in his current state is easy enough to disregard the entire process of letting the adds become Molten and drag them into the pools. Which leaves only the slag debuff to be concerned about. Or? I haven't done him myself, feel free to correct me.

We're really picking the least bad here. That said, do keep in mind that we're comparing DK dps here. It's a shame that you lose 500 dps compared to that hunter pressing Steady Shot with his nose because you had to move but the data can still be useful if all DKs are moving in the same way and that the movement itself does not present further complications than simply having to do it. In the absence of a Patchwerk v2, that'll have to be the compromise, I think.

As for running speed talents, you could argue that a single fight with a lot of movement (between things, not just keeping up with the boss a la Grobbulus (although if you get injected, that's another ballgame, but I digress)) overvalues it compared to the rest of the fights in the instance if you wish to pick one because it in other respects is alike to other bosses.

Using an average would unneccisarily complicate an otherwise straightforward procedure. Besides, there is really no point in taking an average when we can display all of the data points individually.

An average could be interesting. Different builds may excel at different bosses, but an average could expose the build that may not be the top dps on a given boss, but provides the best dps across all or several bosses.

Not suggesting that an average is the only thing that should be considered but it would be interesting to see in addition to the highest logs on whatever the selected boss ends up being.

Freya on hard mode may be interesting to look at. From what i understand, the hard mode is quite similar to OS3D in terms of difficulty of execution and attention required. I personally think OS3D is a great example of what the class is capable of (mobility, single target dps, aoe dps to name a few), and so Freya might be a good example of this as well.

OS is by far the worst example for a dps test. Simply make a lot of aoe and you get the best dps. Especially considering that from european testing, the fights arent very aoe dependant, i wouldnt see any sense in picking Freya. Worst is the fact that the more aoe the others deal, the less you do.

OS3D is the extreme example where you can simply cheat your dps into the roof. And it also weighs too much your aoe abilities dumping your dps (not even considering that strategies may vary, our dk aoe tank often is at top8 at sart due to aoe).

I would argue the opposite. It is a test of single target dps in that you must have a lot of burst for tenebron and shadron, as well as maintaining a good level of dps to finish off sartherion. It is a test of mobility (very obvious void zones and fire walls), as well as a test of aoe (in intervals, no one aoe's the entire time). In addition, I often am the one in 25 man (and always in 10 man) to tank in the portal. It is a test of every aspect of our class, and what we are capable of in multiple situations, and it is why it was included in the top raid dps thread pre-3.1.

I also disagree with this. Sure, anyone can "cheat" their DPS and get huge numbers, but it isn't that hard to look at a parse and expose this. It shouldn't be difficult to look at a parse and see if people are DPSing the "intended" way or not, and evaluate on that.