Thats why you have to reduce the total damage by the damage done to adds. Its still very easy, simply take make
/damage done to boss\
|--------------------------| * (TOTAL DPS) and you get boss dps that cannot be inflated (at leats not so easily).
\ total damage done /
Problem is the OP has accepted data from things like screenshots of recount in the past.
Just think there needs to be more thought put into this, need to find a fight that has less gimmick, and more straight punching bag.
I think for melee, GV is starting to look the most realistic, but only time will tell.
I don"t know about your guild, but we move Vezax. No matter, I get your point. I'm not sure if he has a ton of armor or not. Other then that my guess would be the people able to access him currently. There are guilds out there that can't get to him yet, despite all the Ulduar nerfs.
Moving Vezax is pretty unnecessary. Even so, the portion of the fight where he moves involves him getting slowed, so keeping up shouldn't be an issue anyways. It's FAR less DPS lost than getting Slag Potted on Ignis, and the fight is long enough that overall raid dps isn't going to cause huge number inflation. There are no adds (on easy mode) unless maybe you kill a cloud in melee range.
Now that Blizz has fixed crashes giving ANY kind of benefit to melee, there is absolutely no reason Vezax shouldn't be the number one dps testing boss.
Now that Blizz has fixed crashes giving ANY kind of benefit to melee, there is absolutely no reason Vezax shouldn't be the number one dps testing boss.
Did they refix this on Tuesday? As of Monday night I was definitely still able to get gigantic Howling Blast and Frost Strike crits via shadow crash.
Did they refix this on Tuesday? As of Monday night I was definitely still able to get gigantic Howling Blast and Frost Strike crits via shadow crash.
Are you sure? I could have sworn last week that I was getting normal numbers standing in a crash, but that runes weren't being used (which is supposedly the recent fix, I thought they fixed the extra damage a while ago).
Question. How valid are the numbers of XT002 since you can attack the heart which increases dmg done by 50% or will those numbers not be counted by the dmg done vs. XT002? As for now I dont know which boss you should have as dps check. Kologarn doesnt move but you gotta run from beams and could get gripped so I wouldnt place my bets on him. Anyways, please let me know why xt002 IS the best dps check.
Question. How valid are the numbers of XT002 since you can attack the heart which increases dmg done by 50% or will those numbers not be counted by the dmg done vs. XT002? As for now I dont know which boss you should have as dps check. Kologarn doesnt move but you gotta run from beams and could get gripped so I wouldnt place my bets on him. Anyways, please let me know why xt002 IS the best dps check.
Regards,
Talbinessa Turalyon-EU
When i am talking about boss damage on XT, i surely talk about Heart+Deconstructor. What shouldnt count are pummelers, scrapbots, bombbotsand of course other raid members.
As pointed out multiple times, the biggest problem with XT is that it's riddled with all possible elements that can invalidate reports.
The main issue is that in the end your dps is a function of total raid dps. I had 7070 dps on him in Uld 10 last night just because we got 3 heart phases in a row.
I don't see why Ignis isn't the choice, theres no dps but on the boss. Adds are handled by range and the only thing that would skew data would be getting put in slap pot, and thats not that big of a deal. Its a tank and spank.
Yes, I know, Hodir isn´t a valid Encounter to compare DPS.... but I think XT002 isn´t it too.
That's not much of an argument. The Hodir DPS buff is a Critical Strike Bonus multiplier. Naturally, a frost build with extremely high Crit chances (Upwards of 70% fully raid buffed on Obliterate with T7 2PC) would be able to dish out a ridiculously high number. XT's heart on the other hand is a flat 2x damage multiplier. Light bombs and Grav bombs aside, XT is a far better measure of DPS than Hodir ever will be.
That's not much of an argument. The Hodir DPS buff is a Critical Strike Bonus multiplier. Naturally, a frost build with extremely high Crit chances (Upwards of 70% fully raid buffed on Obliterate with T7 2PC) would be able to dish out a ridiculously high number. XT's heart on the other hand is a flat 2x damage multiplier. Light bombs and Grav bombs aside, XT is a far better measure of DPS than Hodir ever will be.
And you forgot that frost DKs get the Spell dmg bonus too from Toasty Fire debuff...
That's not much of an argument. The Hodir DPS buff is a Critical Strike Bonus multiplier. Naturally, a frost build with extremely high Crit chances (Upwards of 70% fully raid buffed on Obliterate with T7 2PC) would be able to dish out a ridiculously high number. XT's heart on the other hand is a flat 2x damage multiplier. Light bombs and Grav bombs aside, XT is a far better measure of DPS than Hodir ever will be.
I can't help feeling this is all backwards. XT is a terrible measure of dps because as several people have said, your dps is so based on your overall raid dps (which is partly true of any fight - less so in Ulduar than Naxx - but far, far more on XT). Hodir isn't an ideal measure, not because it favours frost but because your uptime on the various buffs is quite random. General trends should show through though.
Without wanting to berate the OP or what he's trying to achieve, I don't really care about the dps of a particular spec against a static target in a sterile environment because real fights don't work like that. I care that frost does more dps on Hodir, or unholy does more on Freya, because that information is actually useful in determining what spec would be best for that fight. Since you have to do all the fights, ignoring one or another because it favours a particular spec seems self defeating.
I mentally divide up DPS requirements into three categories: sustained DPS (Patchwerk style), AOE, and burn DPS (killing drakes style). A spec might be able to put out only 5.5k average DPS, but it might be able to punch up to 12k DPS for a 30 second span - is that more or less useful than a spec that can put out 7k DPS that only spikes to 9.5k at best? It'll depend entirely on the fight. As a note, those spike numbers are randomly selected to illustrate my point, not based on specific observed data in raid situations.
In any case, different fights in Ulduar reward different categories of DPS. XT-002 will reward the specs that can spike their DPS up extremely high for short periods of time, which are not necessarily the specs that can maintain that DPS for longer than 30 seconds. Freya rewards DKs who can AOE well. General Vezax is a sustained DPS test with no frills besides the need to interrupt. Other fights in Ulduar represent different combinations of the three styles of damage output.
I'm not saying it's incorrect to look at damage output on a tank-and-spank style encounter and consider that valuable information, but the ability to apply burn at need and the ability to AOE effectively are also important qualifiers when looking at "the best DPS." And it's very possible that no one spec can do it all - personally, I'm going Blood for some fights, Unholy for others.
I know this thread is moving away from XT as a benchmark, but for those of you who are still interested in seeing parses of top DK dps I have a very clean XT kill to show.
Havent read through the whole thread, but I am wondering if there is a list of what specc scale's best with armour upgrades.
I had 17/0/54 from start of 80, did good dps. Got some better gear, a couple of hero items and some naxx 25 stuff. Allways hitcapped! It seems like my specc doesn't scale as good as other speccs. Cause I do less dmg than other dk's, with crappier gear.(Currently at 510 be.imba score, but not dealing more than 2-2,5k dps boss dummy) I have tried some other speccs, like frost and blood, but none seem to pass my old limit.
Should I stick with my 17/0/54 until I get some more Ap-R, or keep my current frost? Or maybe stick with the blood specc.
I'm a big fan of this site, been a reader for quite some time. Anyway. I have a few questions and observations to share.
I keep hearing that ArP is not a good stat for Unholy since it does not affect the magic damage. Therefore making it not as good for Frost as well. Now I dont know how true this is even those that that statement makes sense when you read it.
I have about 275 ArP, and i tried two specs on raid boss training dummy. Buffs (only horn of winter, no pet)
Blood 51/0/20 and Frost 17/51/3 (306 Hit rating and 19 expertise, and FC enchant and blood presence for both since i dont have 4pc T7 bonus)
Theoretically ArP should be benefiting blood spec more since it heavily relies on physical damage. BUT what I saw was this.. and I hope some of you can help me figure it out wtf...
As Blood I was not able to break 2800 dps... rotation was based on importance (2 diseases, HS, DS, DC) glyphs (DS, DC, PS(?))
As Frost (same gear, glyphs: FS,HB,OB) i was pushing 3700 dps.. Rotation was similar : 2 diseases, OB, BS, BS, rune dump with FS... then its first come first serve assuming both diseases are up
I cannot figure out if my blood rotation sucks or ArP is as good for frost as well??
I'm a big fan of this site, been a reader for quite some time. Anyway. I have a few questions and observations to share.
I keep hearing that ArP is not a good stat for Unholy since it does not affect the magic damage. Therefore making it not as good for Frost as well. Now I dont know how true this is even those that that statement makes sense when you read it.
I have about 275 ArP, and i tried two specs on raid boss training dummy. Buffs (only horn of winter, no pet)
Blood 51/0/20 and Frost 17/51/3 (306 Hit rating and 19 expertise, and FC enchant and blood presence for both since i dont have 4pc T7 bonus)
Theoretically ArP should be benefiting blood spec more since it heavily relies on physical damage. BUT what I saw was this.. and I hope some of you can help me figure it out wtf...
As Blood I was not able to break 2800 dps... rotation was based on importance (2 diseases, HS, DS, DC) glyphs (DS, DC, PS(?))
As Frost (same gear, glyphs: FS,HB,OB) i was pushing 3700 dps.. Rotation was similar : 2 diseases, OB, BS, BS, rune dump with FS... then its first come first serve assuming both diseases are up
I cannot figure out if my blood rotation sucks or ArP is as good for frost as well??
Target dummy tests are irrelevant. You're on a dummy with no raid debuffs that is probably in execute range the whole time comparing the spec that's the most dependent on raid debuffs against the spec that gets a 12% damage boost to all its main abilities when the target is in execute range.
I'm a big fan of this site, been a reader for quite some time. Anyway. I have a few questions and observations to share.
I keep hearing that ArP is not a good stat for Unholy since it does not affect the magic damage. Therefore making it not as good for Frost as well. Now I dont know how true this is even those that that statement makes sense when you read it.
I have about 275 ArP, and i tried two specs on raid boss training dummy. Buffs (only horn of winter, no pet)
Blood 51/0/20 and Frost 17/51/3 (306 Hit rating and 19 expertise, and FC enchant and blood presence for both since i dont have 4pc T7 bonus)
Theoretically ArP should be benefiting blood spec more since it heavily relies on physical damage. BUT what I saw was this.. and I hope some of you can help me figure it out wtf...
As Blood I was not able to break 2800 dps... rotation was based on importance (2 diseases, HS, DS, DC) glyphs (DS, DC, PS(?))
As Frost (same gear, glyphs: FS,HB,OB) i was pushing 3700 dps.. Rotation was similar : 2 diseases, OB, BS, BS, rune dump with FS... then its first come first serve assuming both diseases are up
I cannot figure out if my blood rotation sucks or ArP is as good for frost as well??
I would like to add on to the post above me, basically everything he said (merciless combat, no raid buffs, etc.), but even so I can still pull 4.7k on a dummy. It is most likely your rotation. I try not to do a set rotation, even though it ends up pretty close to a rotation most of the time...: keep disease up, keep death runes up with DS, and spam HS. Make sure you read the Blood DPS thread if you already haven't as well, you aren't gonna get reliable tests on dummies anyway, suggest maybe pug naxx the next two weeks or WWS your next 2 XT attempts and compare in that way.
ok, thnx for quick reply.... I'll try it out in raid tonight to see if blood will perform any better.
But also i read up on these forums that ArP applies to OB, melee strikes and base physical dmg of FS. and since those 3 are the top 3 abilities then it does benefit frost dps quite a bit, am I correct? I'm by no means go into the detail of learning the formulas and stuff, but i'd like to know if Str for frost is still are still the best gems. and for Blood I've heard to stack ArP gems??!?
Does anyone know if the OP ever plans on updating this thread? I'm sure I am not the only one that would like to see top dps for possibly all the bosses (since all of the fights have their specifics). I ask because I'm considering starting a replacement thread, unless someone with more experience would like to take charge. I know many people refer to this thread and are shot down because it is out-of-date.
I would argue that using raid data is equally inaccurate.
Raids are composed of different classes with different buffs that don't always work out to maximize raid dps.
While a Raid leader will try to maximize dps by getting the right makeup this is not always possible. (crit, haste, ap buffs what if the raid has more casters in which case the RL will want to maximize caster dps.
The Dummy removes all these variables.The dummy is stationary and can not move allowing you to find out what the maximum damage you are capable of on a stationary non mobile target. I do agree that sometimes the dummy is in execute range making date obtained from it irrelevant with certain builds but this is not ALWAYS the case.
While some builds scale better with raid buffs why not figure out how much (percentage wise on ave ) they scale and apply that to the numbers obtained from the dummy.
Trying to find what the best build possible is a tall order because there are so many variable involved such as gear, boss mobility, buffs ect.
Another XT - Kill (10!)
I made this post, because I didnt see any other Frost DK over 7k DPS at XT in Ulduar 10.
7228 DPS
Sigil of the Vengeful Heart, Betrayer, 2 T7 Bonus
Armory: The World of Warcraft Armory
Frost 17-51-3
I used the "normal" frost rotation with glyphed HB. (HB for Frost Fever - OB / BS - FS for Runedump)
For support I had an Enhancement Shaman (20% haste, 10% ap), a Fury Warrior (5% crit, Battleshout) and a Retribution Paladin (3% Haste, 3% crit, BoK).
Army of the Dead was used when his HP were at 75%.
I would argue that using raid data is equally inaccurate.
To paraphrase something that was said in an earlier post, so what if your raid is stacked to inflate your dps? This is about the dps potential of the different specs; how much they can possibly do on each fight. If enough WWS's are submitted, the top ones will give a more and more accurate report of how much damage a spec can do on a certain fight, which can help us make conclusions as to what spec is relatively better.
Also, raid buffs and boss debuffs play way too big a role to test dps on a dummy. We want to see damage to optimize Ulduar boss fight performance, not dummy whacking performance.
Another XT - Kill (10!)
I made this post, because I didnt see any other Frost DK over 7k DPS at XT in Ulduar 10.
7228 DPS
Sigil of the Vengeful Heart, Betrayer, 2 T7 Bonus
Armory: The World of Warcraft Armory
Frost 17-51-3
I used the "normal" frost rotation with glyphed HB. (HB for Frost Fever - OB / BS - FS for Runedump)
For support I had an Enhancement Shaman (20% haste, 10% ap), a Fury Warrior (5% crit, Battleshout) and a Retribution Paladin (3% Haste, 3% crit, BoK).
Army of the Dead was used when his HP were at 75%.
I had 7700 the other week without Army. I find dps on XT to be often higher in 10s because it's much easier to chain heart phases - I suspect you would easily find people clocking over 8 or 9k in 10s with some proper strategy in how to provoke heart phases.
05/06/09, 8:35 PM
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