Im saying the patch just down right sucked.

Weapon skill nerf with rage normalization even with 47 deep into fury i saw my dps take about a 16% nerf. I doubt any other class in the history of WoW took such a dramatic turn from 1 day to the next

What is everyone elses thoughts on the patch? all specs are welcome to post of course :P


edit: posting this now because everyone has a couple of days to raid and/or pvp to get used to the patch

Warriors are still higher than half of the rogues. Now half of them are crying, instead of all. But Im extremely disappointed at devastate; I'll take deathwish over devastate any time, if I I can give up with deflection.

the 1 thing i really dont like about rage normalization is that it makes warriors even MORE gear dependant then they already were.

Its terrible, I hate my class now. On loatheb last night there were points where I didn't even have enough rage for whirlwind...How the hell can I not generate enough rage for two instant attacks with 85% crit? Rampage sucks too in raids. The AP is very insignificant after raid buffs. I'm starting to think that the rage would almost be better for something else.

PVP is complete crap now. Any competent player can kill me.

I am not having fun AT ALL. This sucks. All I want is to be the same as I was before...

Arms in PVP feels pretty much exactly the same as before, except second wind lets me outheal a bunch of people. Sure there's less rage to play with but I still seem to do more damage than anyone else (except warlocks but warlocks shouldn't be brought up in balance discussions anymore).

Of course I'm just coming off of 6 months of prot so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.

It's pretty ridiculous we have to spec a 41-point talent to come close to being the same as before.

Rampage would be ok if it only cost like 10-15 rage. For DW Fury, the normalization wasn't that bad, but for tanking level 60 elites it's simply awful, I don't have enough rage to hold aggro against other people.

Could we request that this discussion keeps in mind that warriors at the high end, as they were, were the premier tanking class while also being the highest sustainable dps class, and damn near irreplacable in group PvP? Unless you think that was a fair situation, "All I want is to be the same as I was before..." is hardly a sound argument. A nerf to high end warriors was entirely intended, expected, and depending on your point of view, necessary.

Besides that, I'm also very interested in hearing well formulated thoughts on aspects of the 2.0 warrior, and this would be the place to find that. Discussions everywhere else are drowning in cries of how terrible it is to be nerfed.

"[Talent] is bad/good because [...]" is informative and interesting.
"Current rage generation is an issue because [...]" can be informative and interesting.
"I no longer win dps meters and offtank masterly, I'm quitting" is not.

Rampage on the surface looked like a bad talent, and I hear nothing but that it is. As a prot warrior I'm giddy, I feel a little bit sorry for all the DPS wars but you guys knew this was coming. If you didn't you were living in a la-la fairy land where magical gumdrops rain from the sky and candy canes coat the bottom of lakes so the water is sweet and pink.

With the elimination of decursive we have only to wait for KTM to be raped (not that I see that happening) for my score on "it won't last" predictions to skyrocket.

[Edit] Oh yeah and unless they found a workaround all the tanks who used efficiency macros get a big *RASP* from me as well.

Rampage is terrible tbh. I was just browsing over some quick math but if you are at 2000 ap or so BT is a better use of rage then rampage (this number includes factoring in glancing blows). For a 41 point talent that is really really bad considering when i get a few crusader procs and fully raid buffed im hitting the 3k ap mark. At least i know now how to spend my rage

Ok ill play ball

Rampage is bad because its rage intensive (see rage normalization for details) lasts 30 seconds and is a marginal dps gain which doesnt scale and is theoretically worse then anticipated due to glancing blows and resilence later on.

Haste effects under the normalization law is terribly implemented...i can gain flurry on a 2.6 speed weapon and gain less rage per hit rather then it not be under any haste effect.ergo the normalization formula is fubared

I have no rage after using BT, WW and a hamstring here and there :(

Ya, I agree. It's just an earthstrike at 60 rage a minute. They can easily fix its scaling problem by turning it into a Badge of the Swarmguard instead (avoid armour = % upgrade to dps = scalable).

Flurry needs to be fixed. Without the extra rage gen, 2h fury is dead.

I think rampage should just be scrapped and they should start a new talent altogether because right now its just utterly retarded (and i have had much experience testing rampage even though it was bugged in beta)

It needs to be reduced from 30 rage, but I thought in the beta is was 20 rage.

Vitality is giving more ap than rampage, for free, and doesnt require any activation... And vitality in fact is nothing special. I cannot honestly say i felt much much more comfortable with 8700 hp compared to my old 8400 hp, its just a bit more margin of error, which becomes less and less important as gear/experience improves.

For the previous post, I must agree. I just cannot see the use of 2h fury. People are just satisfying their ego with 'speccing pve', that's all.

The ability to Sunder and HS for 9 points is very helpful in terms of tanking - the dps classes are able to start that much faster and get bosses down in faster times than before. While devastate could be a little better, I feel that it's about par for a 41 point talent with most other classes. For trash, I'm having offtanks apply sunders so I can just devastate spam that much faster. So, I'm happy with protection as it stands.

I have a few warriors that used to be specced for damage, and they're none too happy with the change. Rampage, as has been stated before, turned out to be really demoralizing. While clearing BWL and MC trash, their ability to generate rage was just really gimped. Yes, warriors shouldn't be able to dps like gods and also offtank really well; just let them dps well then - maybe fix fury or arms by making a talent that decreases armor/defense/hp but adds some significant amount of AP? As it is, the only viable spec for a raiding warrior feels like full blown protection. PVP, as protection or arms, is just a terrible exercise in deflating any sense of ego we could've had ;)

If what is being reported from the Beta is actually true about Druids being able to out-tank a warrior in 5 mans, then at that point it would seem that even protection spec would just make us second string group members. Here's to hoping Blizzard reviews their rage generation math and gives us a bit of a boost.

Maybe if Rampage was a passive ability that would be cool. I think to complete the design, whenever you activate it you grow a little bigger and turn red so you really fit the image of a berserking warrior ;) At least, that's what attracted me to it anyway.

43/5/3 Mace spec is better than old arms for the most part in PvP. But most of that is due to the mace spec's insane proc rate. Other nice talents that helped were Iron Will and Second Wind.

In raids, I'm really having trouble with rage (At times I can't even put a WW in rotation. It's pretty much trying to keep up with MS timer), fully buffed and with all the cross talent synergies. But I also think I'm doing a more damage because of Imp MS. I can't say yet this first week of Naxx without any synced DM.

I guess what im really hoping for is 3 things:

1) redesigning rampage making it an actual powerful ability to use where you will gladly skip out on a WW or BT to use it...............since it is a 41 point talent after all


2) redesigning the way glancing blows work. This sarconic mechanism or whatever Kalgan called it is retarded. Apperantly people arent supposed to be fighting raid bosses? The penalty for glancing blows is far too harsh especially when coupled with rage generation

3) Level 70 epics actually help a lot more then most peoples math is showing. If im looking at the same type of rage generation while wearing full tier 5 with a 95 dps 1her something is insanely wrong with the rage formula and needs to be reworked (i mean im taking axe smithing come BC after the results of what haste actually does to rage)

You misunderstood that quote of his. The glancing mechanic is in place to prevent people from fighting mobs they are not intended to fight, like he said, but he referred to larger level differences. +3 mobs are obviously intended to be fought. Why they feel glancings should be in effect on those mobs is not related to you "not being supposed to fight them".

No, if you got more rage using mediocre level 70 gear than you do using high end level 60 gear, something would be insanely wrong with the formula.