+ weapon skill? - Page 3

Emeraude · 06/07/07, 6:29 AM

Originally Posted by Emeraude

Here's me with 7.34% Hit, no weapon skill and 1% hit talented(8.34% Total)

Out of 243 white hits, I missed 5(2%). Out of 68 Bloodthirsts I missed 2(2.9%). Out of all 530 attacks total I missed 7 total(1.3%)

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=bmhhlg2hszrx5

Here with me going completely overboard 116 Hit rating(7.34% Hit) 4 weapon skill and 3% hit from talents(10.74% total)

There were 0 misses.

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=b61x1gwtoufa3

Gonna try again with 7.34% Hit + 2% Hit from talents and see how 9.34% does.

If I'm still missing after that, there's a possibility that the formula changed, in WoW Classic the cap was definately between 8-9% on 73 mobs(8.6% from my calculations), 1% level penalty for 2-handers per leveled + the def difference of the mob. If weapon skill changed drastically it might be 9.5%+ to ensure a 100% non-miss.

Ok, in addition to the quoted research I did, today I went back and did quite a few encounters(I accidently left my combatlog running >_>) with 9.36% hit(116 Hit Rating, and +2% Hit Talents, 350 base weapon skill)

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=rm4x2xmak2ovc

With 9.36% Hit I had 0 misses, so we can confirm with a 2-hander the hit rate is between 8.36%-9.36%.

zork · 06/07/07, 7:40 AM

Ok, that would lead to the assumption that misses against bosses with a two-hander are calculated like this:

5 + (mob_level - player_level) + ((mob_base_defense - player_weapon_skill) * 0.04) = 5 + 3 +  (365-350) * 0.04 = 8.6

What do you think?

What I am interested in: What tool do you use to analyze your hits/misses. Is there any addon available that counts misses, parries, dodges in-game?

@Emeraude: I just watched your WWS page and what is the miss that is listed here:
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=rm4x2xmak2ovc&a=13
8.5% of all normal melee hits missed?

Emeraude · 06/07/07, 7:56 AM

Originally Posted by zork

Ok, that would lead to the assumption that misses against bosses with a two-hander are calculated like this:

5 + (mob_level - player_level) + ((mob_base_defense - player_weapon_skill) * 0.04) = 5 + 3 +  (365-350) * 0.04 = 8.6

What do you think?

What I am interested in: What tool do you use to analyze your hits/misses. Is there any addon available that counts misses, parries, dodges in-game?

@Emeraude: I just watched your WWS page and what is the miss that is listed here:
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=rm4x2xmak2ovc&a=13
8.5% of all normal melee hits missed?

I've always assumed it was 8.6% based on what I saw with and without 8% and 9% hit, I just wanna hit that sweet spot. next step is prob 8.96% hit =o

And yeah, that 8.5% is dodge/parry.

You can go to the config it to show only misses, directly to the right of "Dmg. Out" change the config from "All Miss" to just Miss.

sp00n · 06/07/07, 8:35 AM

Just wrote that in the other thread, maybe we should decide for one of them...

Anyway, 8.6% is also believed to be the miss rate for special attacks for rogues, so I see a very good chance this also applies to 2 handed weapons.

Gere · 06/07/07, 10:21 AM

Thanks for all your work guys. As someone who was concerned at the benefits of +weapon skill, color me educated.

• Aldriana · 06/07/07, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by zork

Ok, that would lead to the assumption that misses against bosses with a two-hander are calculated like this:

5 + (mob_level - player_level) + ((mob_base_defense - player_weapon_skill) * 0.04) = 5 + 3 +  (365-350) * 0.04 = 8.6

What do you think?

So, the problem with this theory is that weapon skill doesn't give +.04% hit; rogue testing puts it at .1%, and the paladins testing got a number close to .2% hit. So if weapon skill isn't providing .04% hit per level, I see no reason to assume that mob defense lowers hit by that amount.

Additionally, the base miss rate of the paladin testing implies the true value between 7.4 and 8.54 percent. While 8.6 is still plausible (it's not far out of the range), it doesn't seem like it's necessarily the obvious choice - although misses have been observed at 8.34% (with a 2h weapon).

My point is that a lot of people seem to be coming back to the .04% hit per skill number and trying to fill in any gaps with prior assumptions of how things worked; this is unlikely to lead to any revelations. What this discussion really needs to show anything conclusive is more testing with large numbers of swings at different combinations of skill and hit.

sp00n · 06/07/07, 3:09 PM

Back in AQ40 I missed a Backstab with 8%, which was actually the reason the theory on miss rate for specials was increased from 5.6% to 8.6%.
http://sp00n.pytalhost.com/misc/backstabmiss.jpg

What currently bothers me, I can't believe that there are different formulae for different classes or weapons.
The formula for white attacks with a 1h/2h/dual wield should be consistent, and only vary by the base miss rate.

We know that several rogues have reported to not have missed once since they have > 307 hit rating and 10 skill and 5% toHit through talents.
At the same time we have a shaman reporting that he missed with no additional skill and total hit > 25.5%.

• Aldriana · 06/07/07, 3:25 PM

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that there's mechanics are different for 1H vs 2H vs dual-wield, honestly. I *would* be a bit surprised if class mattered, but I must confess that it's starting to look that way.

Titanx · 06/07/07, 4:28 PM

Compare dual wielding warriors/shaman/rogues. Don't rogues have a lower base chance to miss? Rogue stats are different in what they add (agil = ap, str = 1 ap, agil = different crit chance), where warrior and shaman stats do the same things (str = 2ap, agil = same crit, etc). So I don't think it's out of the question that their hit chance is also different. It would also give way to +skill doing different things between the classes.