Hello,

Been a lurker for some time. I have just started to be the Enhance shaman for my guild. Respec'd this past Tuesday, this is the first time I have ever been Enhance Spec'd. You wanted some WWS for Mag, here are my guild's charts for our kill this evening. The parse is the entire fight including the 5 channelers, but I was on Mag the entire time after the 5 channelers were dead.

Character name is Areus in the parse and my gear is listed in Armory.

http://onibatsuguild.org/wws/Magtheridon5-30/

Here is our kill data for Gruul the night before too:
http://onibatsuguild.org/wws/gruul-5-29/

Hope this helps some with your Maths.

It seems pretty tough to believe that a prot warrior could legitimately beat you on DPS, unless his gear was awesome and yours sucked. Shatter damage? Group setup? Buffs? Early death? Unsynced or unreset damage meters?

The glancing discrepancies are pretty strange.

I wonder if they did something strange, like reverse the priority of glancing blows and critical hits, so crits now push glances off, not visa versa. In the last two nights raids (when I've been paying attention), I've done less glances than our rogues, but I have a higher crit rate as well.

Who knows what's really going on. =P

Interesting thought, it would fit with the glancing rates in our melee party.

Raid buffed im at 28% crit, where as the rogues/warriors are between 35-40%.

Possibly higher spec dependant, but I know nothing about rogues so i'll shut up about that.

The more I think about it, the more that concept seems ridiculous to me. If crits actually pushed glancing off, crit would become a stat even more dominant than we already believe it to be. I guess the first thing to do would be to establish if there's a current crit cap, and what that cap is.

(A testing related note: Loatheb gives a +50% crit buff. Did these behave on some unusual mechanic which allowed players to exceed the Pre-TBC crit cap, which was around 40%?)

Regardless, glancing blows certainly are behaving strangely right now.

Been keeping up with this thread from the start and think its amazing. But I guess like lots of people I having being rather foolishly hoping for the 'answer'.

Before 2.1 I was doing very nice thank you very much...now I am struggling and as such I am playing chase the right mix of gear and gems to maximize dps. Everything I try atm is not making much difference, I have lots of gear to choose from etc and just cant seem to get the 'silver bullet' solution. I am GM of www.tainted-souls.com and have been playing since the start of WoW.

My main issue atm is that I do not know what gems to put in my gear, tried + hit tried strength etc etc and lots of mixes. Nothing really is making any large difference.

I have a choice atm of 4 pieces of T4 or 3 and Rip Flayer legs. Tbh it doesnt seem to make much difference.

I am tempted atm to try Str in all slots and adjust as necessary from that baseline.

Since the patch I am having to to use the 2.6 HWL Cleaver, till I can get the Gladiator OH, but Arena is slow going because of raiding schedule :P (creeping up on it slowly)

Can post all our WWS stats for Gruuls, Mag and SSC next week the eye if anyone thinks this will add value. Happy to spank mobs to get data for you if required. Just let me know.

Keep up the good work guys, I have loads of badges to spend atm so can improve a few things, worth getting blood lust broach or?

http://www.warbound.us/WWS/wws-20070529-2215/index.html
or the hosted version
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=a1hsj5pyobmay
As reported on WWS. He had 3% more DPS up-time than I did, I was taking it cautiously on shatters because the last 2 weeks I've had people run and stand right on top of me, so on that day I was getting out about 5 seconds before the shatter to run to a safe spot. If you discount the execute dmg I have a higher total but... meh. According the WWS parse I had a lot of unlucky resists on flame shock (surprisingly 0 resists on earth shock though), and again we see that I had around a 31% glancing rate while the prot warrior had a 28% rate.

Other than that I have no idea how to explain it. Pre 2.1 I was in the top 5 DPS nearly all the time. Now I'm struggling to stay above tanks it seems and the only thing I've changed was swapping out my fast OH for a temporary slow green OH (and I actually saw a DPS increase from doing it).

The changes to the class in the patch are just really hurting it seems, unless I'm all of a sudden doing something crazy wrong that I wasn't before. My rogues are rarely using elixirs on a fight and I'm fully buffing with strength food and elixirs on every boss and I can't come close to them anymore. Meanwhile the guild elemental shaman is topping the charts.

Yeah, I got bloodlust brooch as my first purchase. I make sure I use it every time it's up by having my SS attack also use my first trinket slot. I also use TrinketMenu to automatically swap in my other similar trinkets (Uniting Charm, Core of Arkelos, etc.) when Bloodlust Brooch is cooling down. (Bottom trinket slot is hourglass.)

Hah. You dealt more shatter damage than him too.

This warrior took virtually no damage during the fight and clearly was not tanking. Was he using a 2hander? He's done a lot of execute damage. Were you giving him Windfury?

You had 51 melee crits. He had 122 melee crits. His crit percentage was 42% (damn near 50% during Execute!) and you were critting 20%. Maybe a lucky streak on his behalf, and an unlucky one on your behalf. His prot gear (currently shown in his armory) is pretty good, so if his dps gear is just as good, I'm not surprised that he can have a good showing with some lucky crits. Just like an Enhancement Shaman can still do a fine job healing (in proper gear), a prot warrior can do alright damage in good dps gear. He had leader of the pack, you didn't. Did you get battleshout and other melee buffs?

Your gear is not terrible. You definitely need to replace your off-hand weapon. I very much recommend that you abandon the long-held misconception that shaman must wear mail, and pick up some of the leather pieces from Karazhan. At this point, I'm guessing that your rogues have most of it, and you can nab some pretty good upgrades - sacrificing only the nearly worthless PVE stat of AC.

Finally, when it's all said and done, you should take a look at your Searing totems. They did about 5k damage, which when combined with your total damage, means that you did more than the Warrior Be sure to point that out next time he's taunting you about it.

What were groups like? It seems like that Warrior wasn't even getting WF/bloodlust and you weren't getting Battle Shout (though you had Trueshot Aura).

Were buffs equal? Did anyone flask?

Did you have mana issues? I noticed you only gained ~5k mana from Shamanistic Rage. My last Gruul, I gained 18k.

Your crit rate is also ALOT lower than I expect, especially with Mongoose enchants. You "gained" Flurry alot, which meant Flurry dropped off alot. Your Hourglass of the Unraveller also only procced once. It's possible you simply had a week of bad procs/crits. See if your results are similar next week.

Our shaman are experiencing the same thing as Malan is. Our elemental shaman is pwning on Easy Street while our enhancement shaman that previously destroyed worlds are suffering greatly.

Our first Hydross kill from today: http://wow.virakar.com/stats/wws-20070531-1907/

Heeroyui and Broodwich are enhance, Gimporz is elemental. Note that while Gimporz is low on damage due to the half-nature-immune fight, his DPS is over 1000 while the enhance shaman sit at 600ish and have no idea what they can do to improve. (This is with the AOE strat, btw.)

1 pally too so they're missing either BoM or BoK.

Easy Kazanir, tell him to get more +hit, 160 +hitrating just sux. Tell him to scrap the crappy T4 set and get proper items with more +hit, probably most are leather though.

Apparently one of your enh shamans didn't have battleshout?, so suprise there, calculations show that with close to optimal gear (fully buffed some 1.3k dps possible (pre reductions)) you're loosing some 300 dps without battleshoud and leader of the pack.

If you want your enh shamans to perform like rogues, get them the support a rogue gets, leader of the pack, battleshout, bom, ap flask etc. Together with some 40-50 more +hit rating they should perform way better.

Despite what a lot of people seem to think for some reason unknown to me, +hit rating does not have some magical property that makes it more important or better than an 'equal' amount of attack power or +crit rating.

I only have 108 hit rating and I do a lot more dps on Hydross than Kazanir's shaman are doing in that WWS. Hit is good. Crit is good. Attack power is good. They're all good. There is no reason to favor one of these stats over an equal amount of another.

Here's a Hydross 2.1 WWS: http://www.juggernautguild.com/wws/2...100/index.html

I'm doing more damage in 6 minutes than Kazanir's shaman are doing in 9 minutes, with less hit rating than both of them. The reason I outdamage them is my gear is just better than theirs, even though my hit rating is much lower. Would they deal more damage with more hit rating? Yes. They would also deal more damage with more attack power, crit rating and better weapons.

Anyway, one reason Broodwich specifically might have been doing better on the meters pre-patch(other than the WF nerf) is because his weapons were a lot better then(comparitively). He's using two Fel-Edged Battleaxe's, and they didn't get upgraded like most of the other epics did. Anyone wielding a Karazhan weapon or better had their weapons buffed in 2.1, while his weapons stayed the same, pretty much.

Your shaman need better gear and a proper group with Battle Shout and maybe Leader of the Pack. Broodwich should replace that blue gem in his shoulders and get them enchanted. He should also put +6 to all stats on his breastplate and a +8 strength gem in his bracers. Both of them should buy a Bloodlust Brooch and go farm a Totem of Astral Winds from Mana Tombs aswell.

That's one crazy raid group, by the way. Two enhancement shaman and zero rogues. There's really no point in having an enhancement shaman without atleast two rogues. I usually do much better than your two shaman are doing and my rogues demolish me on every encounter.

Group comps were wonky, we had just come from our Mag kill and just said "ah fuck it go with what we got". But yah that prot warrior didn't even have WF. No mana issues really, I only had to use SR once to fill up. At the time during Gruul it did seem like a lot of my flame shocks were getting resisted though.

Actually, I noted this thing about flurry right after 2.1. I remarked to some guildies that it seemed like I was attacking *slower*. I noticed that flurry didn't seem to be up all the time like it was pre 2.1. Anywho in KZ on Wednesday it was the same deal - the elemental shaman absolutely destroyed me in dmg done and dps output. I believe he's largely geared in gladiator items though I'd have to check again to make sure. (He's in the top rated 5v5 for our battlegroup)

Before 2.1 I had been using the gladiator Hacker. After the changes to WF I needed a slower wpn and the green was the best thing I could get in the meantime while waiting for a runic hammer to get crafted. My crafter is being lazy about getting the nethers though so I might just try farming Heroic Auch Crypts for the 2.6 speed blue axe that drops there. http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27872

Three Sargeras Horde Shaman (I include ghando!). Zero Sargeras Alliance Shaman. With theorycrafting-interest levels in this ratio, no wonder progression is more even on our server than before.

Anyway, I have a warrior that's going to help me with test out the other question we've been wondering about. I'm going to go hit on a blasted lands mob for a while with her after respec'ing, but not spending the talent points. After 10 min or so, we'll reset the mob and I'll spend my points on enhancing totems, UR, etc. We'll see how that works out for a first stab at a numerical data point instead of the here-to-fore theory we've had.

Why does the offhand only proc half as much as the main hand? I'm not intentionally dumb, I just haven't heard that before. Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.

Holdover from people who played Rogues. The proc rate on either hand should be fairly similar. Though.. actually... hmm...

Procrate will be roughly the same on each hand, assuming both hands have windfury anyway. Our only instant attack is stormstrike, which attacks with both hands.

Hmmm, ok then, so I can effectively double it to 83.16 ap then, if my math is correct :P Cheers for the confirmation. That would mean mongoose would be superior after all.

Someone asked for some dmg meters from TK/SSC.



Kael, Leo, Hydross, Solarian and VR.

As you can see from the kael SS, bladeflurry is awesome.

Stigmata, what's your offhand? Not showing up on your armory profile.