I'd take Dragonstrike, personally. The 2.7 is nice, and higher dps, however haste is also very nice, and I am a big fan of it.

So over ~1000 white hits, I'm seeing the -5% crit on WF... but not SS: http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=vswg2jm456ytw&a=4

Perhaps there's some zoning bug (similar to the one that affected Hunter's RAP way back) that's affects the Thundering Strikes aura in some way. Or something to do with the Mongoose proc. Nothing conclusive, but worth noting, I think.

Stigmata: considered Rising Tide at all?

Yes I have, but one of the warriors wants it, so before we get into that situation I thought i'd get some feedback on the 2.8 speed weps that less people are interested in.

haste is the one stat that scales with literally everything except the wf 3 sec cooldown. those weapons are similar enough that I'm guessing the 2.7 will be a bit better (with the haste proc, of course).

when looking at speeds, you have to realize that going from 2.7 to 2.8 isn't nearly as big a deal as going from 1.5 to 1.6. for WF/SS hits, you do give up .1 * AP/14 damage (times 1.4 for wf) + the normal weapon differential (15 dmg).

so assuming 3k ap, that's 30 dmg (Ap/speed component) + 15 = 45 dmg per windfury hit (so 90 dmg per MH proc, and 40 damage or so per storm strike. Best case you'll have 2 main hand windfuries and one stormstrike per 10 second interval, so the weapon damage component would be 220 dmg / 10 sec = 22 dps increase from weapon increases.

compare that to a 20% haste (* uptime) on white damage on both hands... assume 500dps white damage, and 30% uptime, you have: 500 * 20% * 30% = 30dps. The haste really seems better, but it's early in the morning and perhaps I'm missing something. I don't think I am though. Either way, they're really close.

Cheers for the feedback, one other thing though.

Are there any negative affects of having a slower OH than MH? (using the weapons above as an example.)

If anything, it seems that a slower offhand would push more windfury procs to your mainhand weapon, which would be a definite plus.

Wow, that rocks!

I wonder if we could get the OP to edit the first post so that it reflects some of the info from the thread - ie, get a slow off hand, do not attempt to use WF Totem as a self buff instead of WF5, etc etc. Right now the first 10 pages of the thread are somewhat irrelevant and confusing now.

Also, Tornhoof just made me a sad panda that my +hit isn't as cool as I thought.

One of you guys who is on a lot and likely to stick around for a while should just create a new Enh Sham thread. OP can include our current state of knowledge, pawn/lootzor weights, and links to all of the spreadsheets/simulators.

I'll do it or maybe Moogle could, but if someone could recap some of the important things here first that'd be great.

I will be using this weapon setup as well, keeping the Dragonstrike as my MH for the haste and slow speed. Plus, why spend the dkp on 2 of those maces which you may not even see. That offhand though is definitely nice. Having the slower offhand will increase windfury procs with the mainhand and finding an offhand weapon slower than 2.7 speed is just silly. That weapon is an enhancement shaman's dream, imo.

Actually I think you get more flurry uptime when weapons are matched. I think when you try to burn 2 flurry charges at the same moment, the server burns only 1, at least sometimes.

Pater, I think I'm going to try modeling it (when I get back from Texas) as something like...

chance of a free flurry = min[1, max((0.8 - (currentTime - LastSwing)) / 0.8, 0)]

So, a simultaneous hit at 55.135 would be:

min[1, 0.8/0.8] = 100% chance of a free flurry.

If it's an attack at 55.135 and then 56.120 it would be:

min[1, max(0.8 - 0.985)/.8),0)]
= min [1, max(-0.185, 0]
= min [1, 0]
= 0%

And then the fun example:
attack at 55.135 then 55.440

min[1, max(0.8 - .305)/.8),0)]
= min[1, max(0.495/0.8,0)]
= min[1, 0.619]
= 61.9% chance of a free charge

Essentially, I'll be prorating a 0.8 second window of opportunity of a free flurry between swings. So, if they're .8 sec apart or more, you don't get a free flurry, but as you approach simultaneous hits, it's more and more likely you get a free one.

Well, that's my thought. It doesn't explain the 5 flurry off one hit examples, and it'll probably still underweight it, but it sits well with me, and I think as I do more testing I'll be able to tweak those numbers to get it right.

I would say that the Dragonstrike haste would more than make up for the small dps difference. It is, however, the best PvE attainable offhand for us under WF's current restrictions.

Ok here's my swing at it -
http://elitistjerks.com/showthread.p...505#post392505
Just start throwing anything in there that I'm missing so far. I'd prefer to cross-link to the math heavy stuff and just show the results on the front page. Keep it as a primer for new people, so please provide a link to the specific posts that illustrate something, and then a summary of what I should add to the thread.

It's probably worth noting down the lootzor/pawn values in that post, as well as the ratios, so people don't get confused when plugging them in.

[Shaman] Itemizing Enhancement at 70

Sorry, I'm new to the forums and the class in general, but the numbers provided to me there were pretty nice to plug into Lootzor and find the gear I should be getting.

Might be better to move suggestions to that thread, I only linked it here to acknowledge the request for someone to compile this stuff.
As far as lootzor though, you can plug in the ratios that Tornhoof posted above and they work fine, all its asking for is a ratio. Now for Pawn, no idea what that string looks like.

We dont use DKP.

Is there a point of sustained haste rating that wf/ft would overtake wf/wf? Assuming you could stay around 1.0-1.2 delay or less (I had heard minimum is .3?), your mainhand would be making a lot of wf proc attempts. With the 3s cooldown, could you eventually swing fast enough , consistently enough, that ft is stronger?

Mainly regarding say, DST + Dragonstrike + Flurry, which are up most of the time, including bursts from meta gem, double mongoose, etc. Perhaps with haste rings from BT?

Dragonspine Trophy is another haste effect to consider.

Ah, sorry, that's what I meant by DST.