WoWculators aside, I love my Quagmirran's Eye when I roll frost. I would likely replace it with a crit trinket while fire spec'd however. I've had it for about a month with both Frost and Fire, and the benefit is much more noticeable as Frost.
If you spam fireball, it's a ton better. In fact, I've start casting two fireballs and then a pyroblast. 4.5 second pyro is very nice, especially when you start it with 0.2 seconds left on your haste buff!
Also, I don't use a stopcasting macro and I get "this spell is not ready" all the time. I get it semi-frequently when my wizardry procs and I'm trying to build a scorch 5-stack, and I also got it quite frequently while having heroism and wizardry buffs on.
Finally managed to pull myself and actually try to nail the exact cooldown of this trinket.
Somewhere really close to 750 casts of scorch r1, 25 minutes of sheer agony for my left hand (and more then 50% of Dr. Booms health ^.^), got me down to 48 seconds as the best proc->proc time. That would then be 8 times the actual duration of the proc.
Still, for me, it remains the best trinket for sustained dps by a clear margin as long as I can keep my mana up but it's nowhere near the values I got when counting on the internal cooldown being three times the duration that has been suggested.
On a sidenote, thottbot and wowhead now records this proc being 10%, was this changed? I have a clear memory of reading 15% a few weeks back...
Finally managed to pull myself and actually try to nail the exact cooldown of this trinket.
Somewhere really close to 750 casts of scorch r1, 25 minutes of sheer agony for my left hand (and more then 50% of Dr. Booms health ^.^), got me down to 48 seconds as the best proc->proc time. That would then be 8 times the actual duration of the proc.
Still, for me, it remains the best trinket for sustained dps by a clear margin as long as I can keep my mana up but it's nowhere near the values I got when counting on the internal cooldown being three times the duration that has been suggested.
On a sidenote, thottbot and wowhead now records this proc being 10%, was this changed? I have a clear memory of reading 15% a few weeks back...
Quag's eye and the Scarab of the Infinite Cycle were nerfed to 10% from 15%. Blade of Wizardry is still 15%.
It isn't a 48 second cooldown. Even though your 25 minutes were agony, that's only around 30-40 procs, which still isn't a big enough sample size to catch a 10% proc right when the cooldown ends.
It isn't a 48 second cooldown. Even though your 25 minutes were agony, that's only around 30-40 procs, which still isn't a big enough sample size to catch a 10% proc right when the cooldown ends.
Aye, seems like it wasn't just my hand that got tired after that exercise. Anyway though I agree that the sample size was way to small to be accurate it still gave me a stong doubt as to the theory that the internal cooldown is three times the duration.
Btw, could someone who still remembers his math tell me the average time to proc using fireball and scorch respectively? (assuming of course that the trinket had the cooldown up)
If 320 haste rating is a 23.5% increase in casting time, then an Arcane/Frost mage could couple it with Arcane Power for a 30% increase in damage and an on-use trinket for maybe another 10% increase, so you'd get an effective 77% increase over the duration of the trinket proc.
Don't be so fast to dismiss that account. I just popped open a log from Gruul (pre-nerf, lots of casting and a fair bit of data since we were wiping) and the best I have is 78 procs and the shortest time period was 55 seconds. My data is absolutely horrible and so far from a proper experiment as to be laughable. Still though, until someone actual confirms a sub 18 second (or between 18 and 45 for that matter) I wouldn't be too sure it doesn't have it's own cooldown.
Don't be so fast to dismiss that account. I just popped open a log from Gruul (pre-nerf, lots of casting and a fair bit of data since we were wiping) and the best I have is 78 procs and the shortest time period was 55 seconds. My data is absolutely horrible and so far from a proper experiment as to be laughable. Still though, until someone actual confirms a sub 18 second (or between 18 and 45 for that matter) I wouldn't be too sure it doesn't have it's own cooldown.
This matches my anecdotal experience testing on Dr boom today. I'll try and parse the logs see though.
Perhaps they changed Quag's eye so that it has a different cooldown than the Blade. They certainly nerfed the proc rate so it wouldn't be out of the question. Previously, people were reporting similar results from both.
My own anecdotal evidence was seeing procs from my Blade as quickly as ~30 seconds from original proc. This was me doing 5+ black morass runs for guildies and basically staring at my buffs trying to time the shortest one because I had just dropped thousands of gold on the sword. Again, not a high sample size yadda yadda (maybe 2 hours of casting and focusing on the sword because Morass is boring). If it were 50 seconds I probably would have freaked out.
Well the nerf to the eye sucks (proc % down by 5%) but the cooldown still seems the same... getting 2.2 procs a min after 6:14 seconds of combat.... down to 1.8 procs a min after 14.04 mins of testing... seems like a cool down of 30 seconds now ; /
off to dr doom!
well i had an hr + worth of data then hyjal died... idk what happened to my data but i'm rather annoyed ; /
After an hour of straight testing on Dr. Boom - using Fireball rank 1 and chain casting, i ended up with a 2.1 proc rate per minute. Which give the item a 22 second cooldown I suspect the longer i tested it, the more the proc rate will increase
Okay, this could be good or bad for a fire mage. If you're scorch spamming until it's up, then use Fireball isntead, this is the timeline I'm coming up with...
Rough time chart for Quag trinket.
0.0 Begin casting scorch
1.5 Scorch hits. Proc happens. You've already begin casting a scorch by the time you notice
3.0 Scorch hits, you begin winding up fireballs now.
5.28 Fireball fires, begin another
7.50 Proc fades
7.56 Fireball fires, begin another
As you see, there's a 0.06 second difference for a third fireball. If the proc has a slightly delay for it's activation, or if it does indeed lower the GCD, then you should have no problem getting that third cast time reduced fireball off. If not, the third one is BARELY going to be full duration.
It seems, if nothing else, like a good way to test if it reduces the GCD. If it does, then that third fireball should fit in there. If not, it's going to be a three second cast time, and a decent cast bar will show it.
Hi. I read the thread with great interest looking for some information concerning Quagmirran's Eye (for exact calculation and trinket comparison).
I still have some questions about the basics:
How does it proc? X procs per minute (or PPM: physical weapons with weapon speed only?) or 10% for each spell like Arcane Concentration? Has someone confirmed the 10% proc chance? It seems too high. QE doesn't proc more often than 5% for me. Every 6th cast is definately not realistic.
How does it work?
WoWWiki claims 13.7 rating to be 1% spell haste. Someone said it was 15.77 after long test series which Blizzard confirmed. Some people say 320 rating are 25% haste, I read something about a cast time reduced to 83%, here someone said it was 23.5%. Why?
If 15.77 is right (blue post), QE decreases the cast time by 20.29% (fireball->2.39 sec) and BoW by 17,76% (fireball->2.47 sec). Both procs at the same time reduce the cast time of a fireball to 1.86 sec.
Any objections?
I just want this to be made clear, because without this knowledge this discussion is pointless for me, since I cannot possibly understand the mechanics without the basic principles.
- It's a PPM style trinket, in that it has an internal cooldown. Once it clears, it can proc again. These are just assumptions, as no one really knows how this works however. So even if it says 10%, it's not a clean 10% chance on every spell cast.
- It increases haste rating by about 30% (so multiply your cast times by ~0.7 to see what the new cast time is).
- It procs on spell *cast* (not hit), so your next spell gains instant benefit from the buff.
- Once the buff is going, all non-channeled spells gains benefit from the buff
- If the buff fades while you're casting a spell, the spell you're casting remains unaffected (retains it's short cast time). Meaning if there's 0.1 seconds left of the spell, you could squeeze in a Fireball/Pyroblast and it would cast quickly.
- It does not affect GCD, so if you're spamming Scorch/AB you will *not* gain substantial DPS. You need to Frostbolt/Fireball spamming, to gain the maximum from the buff.
As for why people report different haste effects, maybe because Haste was buffed recently (which in turn may have lead to this trinkets nerf perhaps?).
- It's a PPM style trinket, in that it has an internal cooldown. Once it clears, it can proc again. These are just assumptions, as no one really knows how this works however. So even if it says 10%, it's not a clean 10% chance on every spell cast.
- It increases haste rating by about 30% (so multiply your cast times by ~0.7 to see what the new cast time is).
People have posted that they have gotten back to back procs recently, something to keep in mind.
What if it was 100% haste, would you multiply your cast time by 0 to get the new cast time?
hasted time = (regular time)/(1 + (haste rating)/10.5/100)
Drums of War (30 spell damage for 30 seconds)
Drums of Battle (80 haste rating for 30 seconds)
Is there a clear winner there for boosting DPS, or is it really close and gear/spec dependant?
I've also been curious about this as I've been making Drums of Battle a lot recently, getting into the whole haste fad. Our melee greatly prefer Battle over War but for casters I'm curious to know which'll be definitively better in a fight where little to no movement is involved, leaning towards Battle though. Can't find anything about it on Vontre's spreadsheet or am I just missing something?
I've also been curious about this as I've been making Drums of Battle a lot recently, getting into the whole haste fad. Our melee greatly prefer Battle over War but for casters I'm curious to know which'll be definitively better in a fight where little to no movement is involved, leaning towards Battle though. Can't find anything about it on Vontre's spreadsheet or am I just missing something?
I can do some quick math for frost mages.
30 spell damage is an extra 24.9 damage per frost bolt; let's round up to 30 to account for other damage talents and curses. Multiply by maybe 1.2 to account for crits minus resists, so you get 36 per frost bolt. Total DPS is 37.5 / 2.75 = 13.1 DPS (I think 2.75 is a pretty good cast time approximation).
By comparison, 80 spell haste is 80/13.7 = 5.8% increased attack speed, so...
(X*0.058) = 13.1 -> X = 225.8 DPS.
Based on this approximation, if you're doing more than 225.8 DPS, then haste rating is better for you.
Moreover, you can potentially bust Arcane Power and a trinket to multiply your damage over this period of time. With Bloodlust, it should basically shoot through the roof.
hasted time = (regular time)/(1 + (haste rating)/10.5/100)
Why 10.5? That's what RatingBuster says, too: 30.4%.
Eyonix said "Spell Haste Rating: 15.8 rating grants 1% spell haste", though.
Why not divide by 15.8? What am I missing?
03/07/07, 1:13 PM
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