First of all, sorry if I missed an existing warrior itemization thread somewhere, but I *think* I looked all over

Anyway. From what I've gathered, stamina and armor are the most important stats as a MT (after 490 def ofc), but how much can I gimp my dodge/parry/block before it's too much?

Lately I've been trying to exchange my mitigation gear to stamina, reasoning shield block is still king for avoiding those crushings and nasty burst damage strings.

But for example, Prince did quite a few crushings when we killed him, because of him hitting 3+ times during a shield block cooldown. (Wiped once to this, but I had lower hp then - just over 15k fully buffed.) I was thinking, maybe if I up my dodge and parry again, he'd be less likely to hit me on all of those 3+ attacks. If i dodge/parry the first or second attack, I can avoid that crushing on the 3rd, cause I would still have a block charge left on that activated shield block.

Maybe I just had some bad luck with 3+ hits taken and 3rd randomly being a crushing.

I realize relying on hoping to dodge/parry kinda sucks, but with high values maybe you CAN rely on it more...

Or maybe the answer is just "get more hp" again..?

Current unbuffed stats are:

12750 armor
12846 health
510 defense
18.24% dodge
17.86% parry
20.33% block

Atm my tanking stats priorities are:
Defense to 490
Stamina
Armor
Dodge/Parry (dodge requires less rating per %, but parry reduces swing time)
Block Value
Block Rating

If someone can suggest some values I should be aiming for I'd greatly appriciate that.
Other thoughts and how you value your tanking stats are ofc of great help too.

You can drop your defense down 20 points. Personally, I will not go below 25% shield block value. We have very similar stats except I have 5 more shield block. Are you protection specc'd?

http://armory.wow-europe.com/#charac...&n=Wakarimasen

Yea he is

Yes, that's what I'm trying to do. Replace that defense with more stamina/armor as well as some dodge and parry rating.

Is there any reason why you want more block rating (not value, I assume)? To me, in theory it seems like the worst tanking stat. It's applied in the roll system after your other defensive stats (dodge+parry) so most of the time, when spamming shield block, your base chance to block could be 0 and you wouldn't notice a difference.

When you have 25% block and use shield block you cannot be crushed.

I think you're going down the right path. 490 defense, after that it should be all gravy. Get that HP/Armor up!

The theory is 25% total mitigation, not 20%, and there is some argument as to the truth of that theory.

Well, actually it's 20%, since I don't count mobs 5% miss towards your mitigation.

Seems like what we are going for with this itemization theory is to become bears, We won't ever have more armor or HP than will they. However (aside from not being crushed) the unique value warriors have in mitigation is greater pure mitigation. We can very easily get over 40% pure mitigation where as getting that extra 5% mitigation in the form of armor require much greater sacrifice. I realize that armor has the added benefit of smoothing out spikes but, with over 15k buffed there are really no spike over 6-8k so there should still be ample time to heal up.

my question is why armor over pure mitigation (parry, dodge)?

You pretty much answered yourself. Armor is easier on your healers, they know what to expect, and you won't take as spiky damage. Dodge/parry is still luck based, to some extent, and less reliable. In fights where the boss have high burst dmg and high dps healers are pretty much bound to spam healing you, and if you dodge and parry an attack here and there that will just result in overhealing anyway.

No.

As Kalman and Dios both pointed out, the theory is that you require 100% block in order to mitigate crushing. This requires 25% base block and shield block active.

Nobody has yet provided a satisfactory explanation of why this must be the case - especially considering it does not fit with the current working theory of single hit table for most combat rolls, but it is the only result that matches all the evidence so far.

20% block rate isn't enough - get 5% more.

It's not necessarily 20% block, but 20% total parry+dodge+block, according to http://www.wowwiki.com/Attack_table.

Quote from there: (This precedence order is from Blizzard, and as such is accurate.)

So you're saying wowwiki is wrong, and Blizzard posted false information?

I would like to be pointed to a discussion about this as well, if that's the case. Thx.

I really wouldn't take wowwiki to be the gospel of what is true. It's a useful resource, but often inaccurate. I should also point out that the 'blizzard representative' referenced in the wowwiki article made a comment specific to crits only. The vast majority of the wowwiki article is derived directly from various threads on these forums (cited in the article).

Anway, there are a *lot* of threads on this particular topic here, but one I particularly remember is this:

Shield block negating crits

This thread includes a combat log parse of a player getting crushed with shield block active and having a native block rate of 24.75%.

The thread generally comes to the consensus that 25% is the 'magic' number but nobody really puts forward a definitive explanation of why that must be the answer.

I know this thread ... and find it inconclusive in regards to native shield block chance >25% needed or not.

The combat log parse could have exhibit client/server latency issues. The crushing came WAY too close to the timestamp where shield block buff faded.

Does anyone with a native block chance of < 25 % have a combatlog where a crushing comes directly (read: 3 sec at most) after activating shield block?
THAT would be way more enlightening.
E.g having just 15% block chance (or lower) would leave a "hole" of 10% chance to be critted/crushed (Im not asuming crit immunity here, as I want to get the native block chance as low as possible) even with shield block active.

Should be not to difficult to find such a combatlog.

But I myself never witnessed such an event happening. Therefore I conclude *for myself* that active shield block eliminates crits/crushings when total avoidance+mitigation rate (i.e. miss+parry+dodge+native block) eclipses 25%.

Speaking of crushing blows and mitigation:

I've been having a discussion with another prot tank regarding the usefulness (or lack thereof) of Anticipation as a talent if it is not required to hit 490D (we've been working under the assumption that 490 is the threshold for functional crit immunity, but I'm going to parse my combat log from our next KZ run to measure my actual incoming crit percentage on bosses like Romulo). The basis of the argument is the common assumption that crushes blows can only be mitigated so much by +D rating - I've understood for a long time that 5D/player level (or 350D at level 70) is the maximum that can possibly be applied to reducing crushing blows. He argues that because Anticipation actually changes the maximum base Defense in the Skills pane (to 370/370, rather than 350/350), it actually allows 20 additional defense to reduce/remove crushing blows.

Obviously, if one can reach 25% block and keep shield block up semi-constantly, this is a moot point. There are, however, bosses who attack fast enough that even shield block doesn't stop all attacks, and it would be useful to know whether the additional defense is actually doing something once you get to the 490 level. Does anyone know what the true "max" D that can applied to mitigating crushes is? Has a test been done to demonstrate a difference?

I've seen the 'anticipation increases your maximum defense' argrument concerning crushing blows often, but from what I've heard this is just a display method.

Whish I could show you some tests on it though, sorry.

This has probably been discussed in other threads, assuming you have 25% block rating and shieldblock up, can you still dodge or parry the next hit, or is whole hit-table filled with block-outcomes?

Block is thought to come just before cirt/crush/hit in the table. So you can still parry, dodge, and be missed with 100% chance to block.

Getting off the block topic slightly as the thread is based towards entire MT Itemization, i'm currently testing stacking as much avoidance as possible all sockets that aren't blue are +parry or +dodge or +defence, but that said I am still wearing the styleens/lgg combo as I'm yet to find better tanking trinkets.

We had the +def trinket drop from Hydross but i'm in 2 minds wether the +35 equip defence and on use of +12% to all avoidance (i didn't work out that figure myself) is worth me losing that valuable +5% block on styleens

Heh, when WoW Classic went to 2.0 and the mobs @ Karazhan spawned(level 70, Skull to a level 60 player) I went out there in full Conq and a sword/shield on.

My stats were downright horrible, I had something like 6-7% dodge, 8% Parry, 13% block, hell it might have been worse then that. Either way against mobs 10 levels above me, I never had a single crushing blow break through shield block.

Side Note: I never got crit either, it seemed the mob's need to crush took priority over critting.

Take that data for what you will gentlemen, or perhaps one of you still have a level 60 alt you'd like to experiment with.

I understand the smoothing effects benefit, but my point is that you get much greater total mitigation from dodge/parry than you can from stacking dodge/parry while ignoring armor (since armor is built in to the dodge/parry pieces), and since most of the armor items you can stack have a paltry few hundred armor (violet signet ect) where-as you can get some pretty serious dodge/parry in these slots if you are not selecting on armor.

While your mitigation will be spikier (this is of course relatively more spikey) you will have more mitigation in total. Smoothness doesn't seem to be the end-all be-all you could strip off all your dodge, parry and have very steady damage intake, like a warlock with a sacced void walker, but it seems like you are actually making your healers job harder.

Also i wonder when stacking armor how much more armor do you have than a warrior who picks up the good purples but looks for dodge/parry rather than armor in her items.

Wouldn't this then completely eliminate the need for defense as a stat? (mage/shaman asking, so go easy on me )