[Warrior] MT itemization theory - Page 8

Teez · 04/08/07, 8:11 PM

Originally Posted by Darkmgl

Its like a mini power word shield, mine seems to do 256 and not 200 too. The buff stays on for 15 seconds and is removed after taking 256 damage, it will not stack up just overwrite itself if you proc it while it is still on. Theres no limit to how often it procs either, it is fun pulling 50 low level mobs and chain proccing it the whole time.

Speaking of the 256 vs 200 dmg absorb from Blade Turning ... is that just a tooltip misnomer, a bugged value, or is there something affecting this at all? I mean, is any stat playing into it? I click off Spirit/Int automatically whenever I get buffed with it (habit from the days when flasks would get knocked off...) - so I'm not sure if the added spelldmg/healing from imp DS would affect this. Could it be that the shield scales with level and was, for some odd reason, designed for lvl 60? If only there was a way to hit 71 for a few tests, or have 2pc @ lvl 69, just to see if the value would differ. In the end I'm pretty sure its just what I mentioned in the start, wrong tooltip, or wrong value for the shield, but heck, would be funny if it was more than just that.

Louviel · 04/09/07, 11:22 AM

You won't get a 2pc at 69 anyway..
They are req level 70 items.

Also, the proc is likely erroneously giving 256, which is 2^8. The numerical significance of this number is large in computer programming... My bet is that it's an error.

Darkmgl · 04/09/07, 4:28 PM

Yeah I've noticed no influence from anything on the 200 vs 256. Its always been 256 for me after testing block value, int, spirit, all typical melee stats, and all the ratings. It is likely an errored formula or an errored tooltip.

Garm · 04/11/07, 1:15 PM

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28621 VS. http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29184

I'm having a hard time with this. Assuming I socket either with 3 solid stars, I trade 15 stamina for 5 defense and 14 dodge.

I suppose another way to approach it is to socket Timewardens for stamina and the Wrynn Dynasty for mitigation, but how often is that really needed?

Dots · 04/11/07, 1:58 PM

Wrynn Dynasty also adds a decent amount of AC.

Garm · 04/11/07, 4:52 PM

Originally Posted by Dots

Wrynn Dynasty also adds a decent amount of AC.

I'm not sure how I missed that, but yeah. That pretty much answers the question for me. Thanks.

Ren · 04/17/07, 2:14 PM

Which do you guys think is better, Aldori Legacy Defender (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28825) or Gladiator's Shield Wall (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28358)?

Trondheim · 04/17/07, 3:01 PM

Gladiator's has 200ish armor and 7 block to Aldori's 4 sta (7 with a 15 sta gem) and 12 hit...It's pretty small either way, but I think personally I'd go for the +hit benefit, since it's somewhat lacking on current tank gear.

Dots · 04/17/07, 5:25 PM

Aldori also has def instead of resilliance. I think it's slightly better, but the drop rate is quite bad, too.

Russta · 04/25/07, 6:59 PM

Apologies for ressurecting an older thread but I'm wondering what people's opinions are on T4 body vs Nightbane's Panzar'Thar Breastplate for the primary purpose of retaining 2pc set bonus.

I'm trying to plan ahead for T5 shoulders + legs breaking my current T4 shoulders + head setup as I'm quite a fan of the 256 mini-shield but I'm having a tough time convincing myself that T4 body offers enough to make it superior to Panzar'Thar.

Dots · 04/25/07, 8:38 PM

If you just compare the items, I like the T4 chest better, especially if it helps you keep a set bonus. I would never ask for it though, unless noone else in the raid wants it. The upgrade is very minor and you have to spend quite some cash on new gems and enchant, too.

Darkmgl · 06/08/07, 12:09 AM

Bringing this up from the dead since there isn't another thread dedicated to warrior tank gear discussion and comparisons as a whole.

I wanted to bring up a question about threat and mitigation on chestpieces. I've been using a Bulwark of Kings for a few months now because pre item buffs I found it to be the superior BP. I've got a Panzar'Thar BP sitting in the bank and I've been wondering if it would be worth switching back from the Bulwark to a Panzar'Thar, or a Warbringer Chestguard (if I can get one) for overall gear now namely for shield block value and some extra defense/block rating as I'm getting close to the point where I can permenantly push crushes off the table with proper debuffs/buffs.

Any opinions?

Virtualis · 06/08/07, 8:57 AM

yes gem ur panzer for tanking and bulwark for lol dev dps

suicuique · 06/08/07, 9:15 AM

I use the ancient Bulwark of Kings as my tanking/OT/DPS Breastplate.
I have Panzar's in the Bank, but I have opted to go for the superior stats (AC, STR and Crit for Threat) of the Armorsmith Breastplate + built in LGG for emergencies + hit.

I you really want to go for passive crush immunity though ... the added avoidance (block% and def) of Panzar's are difficult to top.

kmamyk · 06/19/07, 2:12 PM

Originally Posted by suicuique

I know this thread ... and find it inconclusive in regards to native shield block chance >25% needed or not.

The combat log parse could have exhibit client/server latency issues. The crushing came WAY too close to the timestamp where shield block buff faded.

Does anyone with a native block chance of < 25 % have a combatlog where a crushing comes directly (read: 3 sec at most) after activating shield block?
THAT would be way more enlightening.
E.g having just 15% block chance (or lower) would leave a "hole" of 10% chance to be critted/crushed (Im not asuming crit immunity here, as I want to get the native block chance as low as possible) even with shield block active.

Should be not to difficult to find such a combatlog.

But I myself never witnessed such an event happening. Therefore I conclude *for myself* that active shield block eliminates crits/crushings when total avoidance+mitigation rate (i.e. miss+parry+dodge+native block) eclipses 25%.

Well, here is a combatlog filtered for my "interaction" with Maiden:
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...=1&fih=2&fih=4

Look at the following lines:
05:15'21.084 Ithnan gains Shield Block
05:15'22.795 Maiden of Virtue's Melee hits Ithnan for 1729 (259 blocked)
05:15'24.790 Maiden of Virtue's Melee hits Ithnan for 3248 (crushing)
05:15'26.769 Maiden of Virtue's Melee hits Ithnan for 1692 (259 blocked)
05:15'26.325 Ithnan gains Shield Block

This can not be dismissed as the latency issues. Also this is a slow hitting mob (every 2sec), not DW, and I do have Imp Shield Block.

I will try to search my combatlogs for more crushing evidence, from other bosses, but is it possible the previous assumption of the single attack roll can be incorrect?

zenos · 06/19/07, 2:51 PM

Originally Posted by kmamyk

Well, here is a combatlog filtered for my "interaction" with Maiden:
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...=1&fih=2&fih=4

Look at the following lines:
05:15'21.084 Ithnan gains Shield Block
05:15'22.795 Maiden of Virtue's Melee hits Ithnan for 1729 (259 blocked)
05:15'24.790 Maiden of Virtue's Melee hits Ithnan for 3248 (crushing)
05:15'26.769 Maiden of Virtue's Melee hits Ithnan for 1692 (259 blocked)
05:15'26.325 Ithnan gains Shield Block

This can not be dismissed as the latency issues. Also this is a slow hitting mob (every 2sec), not DW, and I do have Imp Shield Block.

I will try to search my combatlogs for more crushing evidence, from other bosses, but is it possible the previous assumption of the single attack roll can be incorrect?

Guys, sorry to peep into your warrior thread, i was reading it to try and learn something as our tanking tactics and gearing are very similar.

I have aroun 18% block iirc. however my total mitigation with holy shield up is 103+.

I downed prince yesterday with 0 crushings, and last week with 1 crushing, due to mismanaging the global cooldown for a second. Of course i get 8 blocks per 10 seconds, but my point is that if you had to have 20% shield block to be uncrushable id get crushed like mad, and i dont EVER get crushed unless i make an error cycling my skills.

It's time to put to bed the 20% shield block to be uncrushable myth.

Prince and Maulgor dont crush me, i dont have 20% shield block(and it would require 65% for me because my holy shield is only 35% with libram)

That a paladin CAN tank prince is proof enough, that i can tank him without getting crushed at all should squash the concept.

Uglesh · 06/19/07, 3:03 PM

Warrior builds have always come from whichever school of thought you believe in.

Either STAM is king... at the expense of all other stats
Mitigation is king.. Jam as much + dodge as possible
or lastly Blend the 2

The whole "uncrushable" thing has been handled ad nauseum. The data is there and it's general knowledge how you can push Crushing blows off the table. This of course assumes attack speeds 2 sec or greater.

There is ALWAYS the chance that you can be crushed if you turn during the fight... you use a potion.. or just bad latency.

kmamyk · 06/19/07, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by Uglesh

Warrior builds have always come from whichever school of thought you believe in.

The whole "uncrushable" thing has been handled ad nauseum. The data is there and it's general knowledge how you can push Crushing blows off the table. This of course assumes attack speeds 2 sec or greater.

There is ALWAYS the chance that you can be crushed if you turn during the fight... you use a potion.. or just bad latency.

Yes it has been discussed. I have read a lot of threads about it as well. All of the posts in the end point to the wowwiki article which is based on 2 people doing tests vs lvl63 mobs (not raid bosses if i remember correctly), in pre-TBC. Overtime this has become the truth.
Is it inconceivable the single attack roll mechanic has been changed in TBC? Wep skill mechanic changed, glancing blows mechanic changed. By the way i did not use the potions and latency was good.
I am not trying to persuade anyone, but merely presenting data that make me skeptical.

Buiden · 06/19/07, 7:27 PM

Originally Posted by Uglesh

Warrior builds have always come from whichever school of thought you believe in.

Either STAM is king... at the expense of all other stats
Mitigation is king.. Jam as much + dodge as possible
or lastly Blend the 2

I do believe you mean 3 schools.

Stamina
Avoidance (dodge/parry/defense)
Mitigation (armor/block value)

I personally prefer stamina and mitigation, makes everything a whole lot less spiky in general.

Feji · 06/27/07, 2:56 AM

Tonite, I got to test out a crush immune set in game on Morogrim and Lurker Below, here are the results:

Combatlog file : http://rapidshare.com/files/39583218/clog.zip.html

Links to SS's:
Tankpoints/char panel->http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1...munesetbj5.jpg
Lurker->http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5535/lurker1ex0.jpg
Morogrim->http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1...rogrim1rv8.jpg

I did run rage dry a couple of times, but nothing too bad. The gear I used is pretty much what I usually run with, with the exception of the 15 block rating enchant on my shield, a +8defense rating gem in my helm, and the figurine of colossus trinket as one of my trinkets. The buffs used are pretty standard aswell; BoK, MotW and Major Agility elix. In the screenshots with the stats printed out, some of the info is wrong as I was lazy to finish up the mod (But the counter on swings, hits, crushes, etc is accurate, and the combat logs are posted for you to parse also).