Just found something:

Are you sure about that -0.09 and not -0.09%? Difference of 1.11 to 1.092.

Tuesday, January 23rd
2.0.6 Patch Notes
Source

I've never run a spec that didn't include improved SW:P so I can't verify the untalented numbers. The predicted numbers for talented SW:P are based off the same formula and are confirmed via in-game testing. For now I'll assume this is correct unless someone can show otherwise.

Just me or is the time till OOM and Longevity sections bugged? If I keep everything static and increase my +dmg both these numbers drop, so either there is a fault in the equation or their definition needs some revision. Great work though, highly appreciated.

Can you provide some of the numbers you're using? I can't duplicate this without pushing the longevity numbers into the negatives, at which they are infinitely sustainable anyways.

With +dmg set to 750



With +dmg set to 1200

The total damage till Oom almost halves with more +dmg which just doesnt make sense.

Edit= Also reducing the number of VT priests in group increases the same values (total dmg to OOM and Longetivity), with those settings and reducing it to one priest suddenly I can supposedly do 1.3 million damage with 768 dps which I quite frankly can only wish for hehe.

Thanks for the screenshots. What you're noticing is a point of infinite sustainability. Once the values turn negative (as indicated by the color red in the spreadsheet) the formula used for the calculation breaks down. It's at this point you are regenerating more mana than you can spend given the current rotation. The spreadsheet doesn't know how to account for this and begins to calculate a seemingly contrary prediction.

The value fluxuation you're noticing is actually irrelevant since the end result is infinity. Once you drop below the breakpoint of infinite mana reserves the formula will restore itself.

NOTE: The use of multiple VT priests in a group very quickly drives us over that threshold.

I don't know if it's possible to model, but the use of multiple shadow priests in a group has big impact over the TPS generation. One grossly inaccurate way (or correct if you assume they all have the same dps) would be to divide the threat generated from VE with the number of shadow priests in the group since they all contribute with the party healing.

It's very interesting to understand just how long I can sustain myself, in a fight, and in what ways I can tweak my spell rotation to increase my longevity. It's also useful to see just how much of a healing impact I'm causing when I add SWeath to my rotation - that's a nice touch.

The only minor nitpick I have is that you spell "infinitely" as "infinately" several times, which obviously has nothing to do with the numbers, but does draw my eye from time to time.

Damnit, thanks for drawing my eye to that. It's an old typing habit that's easy to forget when there's no active spell check running.

Your shadowfiend estimates are incorrect, but I suspect you know already.

1: from what I've been able to gather, the "base damage" dealt by a shadowfiend is about 1200. you list 1500.
2: the spell damage coefficient is, I believe, 65%, not 100%.
3: the mana returned is, I believe, 2.5 times the damage done, not 2 times.
4: We need to take into account miss/dodge/parry/glancing/crit/etc which is where it gets hairy... I have no idea what that'd be. I'm guessing perhaps a net 20% loss against a 73?

Otherwise, seems to be pretty accurate, or at least, agrees with my spreadsheet in the basic cases, roughly.

It's difficult to gather detailed information on shadowfiend so I used assumed values. Once I get some more time on my hands I'll work on banging out the real numbers. At this time I have no idea how to account for its miss/block/crit/etc factors.

It would boost your damage if there was anything that had resists that it could lower, but in raids there isn't.

There's a bug with the spell cycle generator.

0 lag, default settings, VT starts casting at 1.5 sec. VT lands at 3.0 sec. VT starts casting again at 15.0 sec, which lands at 16.5. That's only 13.5 sec duration.

The problem is you're putting a 13.5 sec "cooldown" on VT, but that cooldown starts when you start casting, and VT starts after you've cast. So you're double counting the cast time.

Thanks for catching this. I was assuming a pre-cast before the duration had ended but forgot the formula would already take this into account. In any case, it's been fixed if you'd like to download a new copy.

Also, I'm on a bit of a hiatus from WoW at the moment so in-game numbers for shadowfiend are still on the backburner. This will be corrected when time allows.

I've left this functionality out because it's easier to pull the necessary data directly off the character sheet than inputting each one manually and then running the calculations. Most likely this won't be added. Feel free to modify the sheet to include this if you like though.

As always, thanks for all the feedback.

Not exactly on the topic of the spreadsheet, but since I have a shadow priest DPS question and there appear to be some experts here, it seemed close enough.

We recently had one of our priests respec shadow for raids. He's been holy for all of our pre-BC 40-mans, so this is a bit of a new experience for him. Anywise, he's been asking questions of me lately since (1) I'm the GM and (2) he sees me posting big numbers on the DPS charts.

Our last discussion of the importance of +dmg versus +crit. My limited understanding of shadow priest DPS in a raid boss setting is that when you're not reapplying Shadow Word: Pain or Vampiric Touch/Embrace, you're Mind Flaying. As such, crit isn't of much use compared to raw +dmg.

However, he was extolling to me the virtues of Mind Blast via the crit talents and reduced cooldowns, so therefore +crit wasn't a wasted stat on him. My impression was that Mind Blast wasn't terribly mana efficient for a long boss fight. Moreover, I thought that it's cooldown precluded you from spamming it, so therefore it was used too sparingly in a long fight to justify stacking +crit. However, I haven't followed priest mechanics much in the BC age, so perhaps things are different at 70. I also know that Shadow Word: Death has a strong crit component and I've heard that Vampiric Embrace mitigates the self-inflicted damage it does to a priest casting it mid-fight on a boss. So maybe this priest's interest in +crit is justified.

What do the experts have to say?

Well from my experience, for fights where dps is important, MindBlast and Shadow word: Death are important for our overall dps.

Typically, I prioritize how I cast my spells, first I make sure my dots are up. If my dots are up, then I will Mindblast, SWD. If Mindblast and SWD are on cooldown and my dots are up, I mindflay. To be able to keep this up for fights like Gruul etc, you have to use your mana fiend wisely and additionally use a punch of pots and demonic runes etc.

With that said, crit still isnt as important to us compared to other dps casters. In a nutshell, we do not get anybonuses whatsoever when we have a spell crit, ie we just get the base bonus 50% damage. Mages, warlocks and even elemental shaman have something that is triggered on a crit whether it be ignite, improved shadowbolt, or rune etc that increases the damage beyond the base 50% bonus. On top of that, we have 2 spells that can crit, while the rest of our damage comes from sources that can not crit. Looking at even the most aggressive damage cycles we have, at most 40% of our damge comes from spells that can crit.

Caster items are itemized around the bonuses that a mage or a warlock get to their dps in my opinion. Because of this, we are better off focusing on items that maximize our plus damage, which benefits all of our spells, instead of only a fraction of the spells that we use.

Overall you will see bigger dps gains focusing on + damage then you will by focusing on +crit.

In the best light I can give crit, 5 crit rating is about the same dps increase as 1 +dmg.

I remember coming up with something like... for an item to be optimized for a shadow priest and have 5 crit rating on it.. it'd have to have something ridiculous like 100 +dmg on it.

On the other hand, raid itemization is pretty poor, so we're often forced to take many items with crit, simply because there's few or no alternatives.

This question is a bit off topic, but I dont think its worthy of its own thread either. I'm in the process of recruiting a shadow priest for our raid group and have some questions about what I should expect.

We are currently trying out a player with about +700 shadow damage (a low number, but we're willing to gear up good players). She pretty consistantly come in near the bottom of the dps meter, spot 11-12 out of 13 dps classes. The top dps usually accounts for about 8% to 8.5% of the raids damage, with the shadow priest clocking in around 5%. The top spot is usually a warlock with about +1100 shadow damage or a mage wearing the full tailoring set (not sure what his spell damage or crit rating is).

Is this shadow priests damage output consistant with their gear level?

I wouldn't say this priest is terribly off their mark. For one, higher damage (and thus DPS) begets more mana returned per mana spent. Think pre-2.0 fury warriors. And then therein lies the true culprit of mana and using tons of mana pots.

I would say your average fight will net your priest 750 DPS max, with proper rotations and mana pots. What position that means on your meter is going to change from raid to raid. Said meters should track DPS, however, to measure your priest's mark.

When I first raided as a shadow priest, I only had around 750 spell damage and was generally around 5th out of 15, barely using any consumables. I'd suspect it's a talent issue, a spell cycle issue, or some of both.

Were you comparing to mages who'd finished crafting their entire tailoring set (presumably with some decent gear in the other slots), locks with +1100 damage, etc?

Or were you comparing to mages in maybe a couple pieces of Spellfire and a Spellstrike Hood and locks with 800 +dmg?

5th of 15 doesn't mean a thing without knowing what the 15 are.

The mages and warlocks were in the 900 to 1000 spell damage ranges. They weren't all tailors, and their gear has improved by 50 to 150 damage since then, but their gear was still respectable at the time.

EDIT: Another factor that could affect the DPS significantly is Curse of Shadows. Obviously this is a massive increase for shadow priest DPS. It could be that my then-undergeared priest always had shadows for a damage increase, but your undergeared recruit does not.