Boevis

I'd actually say that druids gain the least from buffs. We get advantage from stats, rogues get advantage from AP, warriors and hunters are pretty much midway. TSA, BS, and BoM are extreme amounts of AP, and then there's Windfury....

 

Kazanir

If I can DPS for the entire fight I usually top our guilds damage meters without any problems, especially when potted with Kings up. It's even more ridiculous when I make a different druid put up Mangle, tee hee. This is mostly due to suckage on the part of others, but clearly our DPS is very respectable, although I wouldn't say overpowered.

[13:07] <Kazanir> Vontre was responsible for Black Mesa
[13:08] <Vontre> Is Black Mesa some Half-Life thing?

 

• Exewut

Wel, unleashed rage is godly for druids, in essence it's almoust a 10% weapondamage buff.

[e] Overpowered? Let's not kid ourselves really. Would you be a benefit to the guild if you couldn't go to an encounter and do great dps to compensate for the soso tanking? I'm sure that I would have given up feral quite a while ago if I couldn't perform almoust as good as pure dps classes.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

While I don't remember the group makeup, we had a grull kill where our top rogues were doing around 850 dps, and our cat was doing about 730 dps. That doesn't seem overpowered or underpowered to me really.

Check out my friend's bitchin' Lord of the Rings Art

 

Boevis

Well, I can say with fairly high certainty that the hit cap for druids is not 8.6%. Wearing 108 hit rating (that's 6.85%) with 0 +skill, I missed 0 out of 4,000 attacks on Haalu. I'll do tests later at ~6%, ~5%, and assuming I see misses at some point, I'll box it down by as small increments as I can to get our number.

Please note this is auto-attacks only, there may very well be different hit% required for specials. Wouldn't it suck if we needed 5.6% for white, but 8.6% for specials...

After I get the hit worked out, I'm going to figure out the whole weapon skill thing if I can. Initial tests in PvP with +15 feral attack skill (Ring, Pants, Mace) against a warrior with 10% Parry had him parrying 8.5% (34/400) attacks with another 12% dodged/missed. Even though it was a fairly small sample size, I think this pretty much confirms Crezax had no clue what he was talking about in his post about +weapon skill. +15 skill should have netted me -9 parry rate, nowhere near the -1.5% I got.

 

Ragrrr

Bingo!

 

Feythe

I'm curious about the Haalu you tested on (Wowhead/Thottbot and an armory search turned up no results) because I believe the mob should be 73 for you to have an 8.6% base chance to miss, so if you've been testing on a 70 mob your miss rate is going to be significantly lower (5% flat for an equal level mob IIRC)

 

Boevis

Haalum (Corruptor of Air) 70 http://www.thottbot.com/?n=1058115

Several hours and a few aching fingers later ...

Mashing the hell out of mangle for 15 minutes at 5.01% Hit - 0 Misses.

I got tired, so I dropped to 4.57% and stopped as soon as I saw a miss. I could test inbetween, but I'm pretty satisfied. 5% is ridiculously easy to get.

 

Morghus

With several years behind you as a rogue, decent know-how on what to do as a melee and a spec that is nearly pure +damage, you will be closing in on the top of the metres.
There's alot of interesting encounters where a cat-druid tends to do almost nothing but hammer the mob, and most other classes have some specific role they need to do besides just doing damage.
A druid has the option to burn immense amounts of mana to do more damage for a bit as well.
To use an old term off of myself; there's alot of effort involved when you want to prove something, and hybrids tend to do that alot ( like your worth and how much damage you can do ).
The numbers you're presenting there aren't all that high considering the mechanics of a druid; how much you gain, and how much you need. So no, I don't think we'll be nerfed, and if we do I think it'll be too soon.
I haven't done any testing, but I had the impression that our abilities scaled extremely well.

I'm ok with the druid as it is right now; we have our strengths and our weaknesses ( which are drastically smaller than they used to be atleast). Things need to sink in and we need to find our places, seeing as Blizzard refuses to give us any clear directions to them, and go from there.

 

• Daboran

If that's the case, the relative lack of +hit on Feral gear isn't as much of an issue as I was assuming. Just carry a few alternatives of +hit items for slots and go for str/agi to maximize dps - sweet. I have to say though, the Clefthoof Hide legs and Earthwarden combo will be hard to replace when the time comes.

 

Mistaya

But that's a lvl 70 mob... I can say with absolute certainty that our hit cap is above 5% for specials on lvl 73~ (raid lvl) mobs. I can't recall missing a shred after 7.5% or so, (dodges yes, but no misses unless I'm blind) but at 5% misses are very noticable, I've had chains of 2-3 missed shreds.

I don't generally watch my autoattack numbers because my threat values aren't really affected by them, while getting 3 crit shreds in a row is important to note, heh. Not sure if there is a disparity in how much hit is needed for white dmg vs. yellow but I doubt it.

 

Boevis

Everything but the 3.76 was done with over a half hour (1800+ attacks) of testing each vs level 70 Haalum.

If what I gather from the rogue thread, 18 skill rating (+4 skill) should give me ~+.4% Hit, not the .32% I'd except according to Crezax, and by comparison, +5 defense from mob level should give me -.5% hit instead of the .2% I'd except from standard defense tooltip. This would change my values to an expected .16% Miss at the 4.44%, .84% miss at the 3.76%, and .55% miss at the 4.95% vs 71's ...

Much closer than my results and within reason considering my relatively small data field. However, I'm feeling fairly confident that the druid base miss is actually 4.9% and not an even 5% As this brings all results thus far within .1% deviation.

 

◊ Primal

There's been an obvious change in pace in this thread that was due to the recent bear changes. I wasn't around for it, I was still leveling up. I'll be the first to say, I didn't see what happened with it to the full extent. The change in feral talents didn't affect me at the time, as cat dps was (mostly) unchanged.

Post nerf, as it stands right now, I do know that feral (bear) tanking is still viable, at least to start with in Kharazan. What I do not know, and what I cannot glean from this thread is what ARE acceptable numbers as it stands now.

Having downed Attumen with relative ease last night, what sort of numbers should I be looking for suppposing we're going to clear Kharazan with me tanking or off-tanking when needed? Last night, buffed, non flasked, and non elixired I hit 18k hp, 15k armor. Add in proper food, elixirs, flasks, etc, and I imagine I could easily break 20k. I'm seeing alot of people using 20K ac as a baseline, and then others saying evasion-type tanking is where druids post "changes" should be looking.

 

Toothpaste

While lots of dodge is nice, you can only go so far until you sacrifice too many of your other stats. Personally, 20k armor is the minimum I'd go for. You've got plenty of HP, but not nearly enough armor. Your dodge% is only so reliable. Eventually, you'll eat an unlucky chain of not dodging and be a very dead bear.

For just starting KZ, there are all the high armor quest rewards (Verdant Gloves, Umberhowl's Collar, etc.) available to help up that armor. I think when I first started tanking in KZ I was around 21k armor. I had a lot less hp then you, but there's really no need for that much any time soon. I usually sit around 21k hp flasked and buffed when OTing Gruul, so that much HP for the beginning of KZ is a bit much.

Also, don't forget to reach 2.6% to not be crit from defense and resilience!

 

Copernicus

For the Moonglade 2-piece bonus (35 dodge rating with Rejuvenation) which two pieces are the the best options if I want to get the set bonus. Along the same lines, are druids keeping the set for general purpose healing or eventually abandoning it for more effecient pieces? And if so, when did you abandon it?

This might have been discussed earlier, but if it was I couldn't find it with search options.

 

Solstice

Personally I would only recommend Moonglade in a situation where you're playing as a hybrid, and certainly not for a pure healing roll. I used 2 pieces for a little while soon after hitting 70 because I was often needed to play as dps/offhealer for heroics... once we'd all geared up a bit a 2nd healer was no longer necessary and my Moonglade set has stayed in the bank ever since.

Although for some reason I don't feel I should be advocating the gimping of ones AC with cloth, for a restoration build I'd feel a lot stronger with Hallowed over Moonglade. I don't think it would be worth even keeping 2 pieces Moonglade for the set bonus unless you're planning on doing some dps in the same gear. If you're determined to do this however I'd go with the gloves and the shoulders (socketeted with Royal Nightseye's) so that the impact on you're overall healing stats is minimal.

 

◊ Primal

Finished the whole "uncrittable" thing with the first run into KZ with the faction ring. It appears that I'm going to be hounding some friends to do Drakk for the Mark of Tyranny, since I never picked it up while leveling.

I picked up Umberhowl's as well as the belt from the quest line, Verdant Gloves will help significantly.

Thanks much, Toothpaste. It at least gives me a direction to work in. (AC instead of more HP for the time being)

 

◊ Zeln

My guild is working on the Shade of Aran. I primarly am the second tank. I was well over 20k armor already before I started tanking Kara. So what I tried to do was get to 30% unbuffed dodge while maintaining around 1k stamina (in bear) unbuffed while maintaining at least 20k armor.

For my healing gear, I wear a lot of Moonglade. And honestly, it was because I was tired of looking like a big giant cow clown.

Cloth healing head from Cenarion Rep....Big orange hat
Tier 1 lookalike shoulders from Bot.... Looks like I was attacked by a big yellow bush
Vicar's Cloak....Purple cloak (Ok, I still wear this)
Hallowed Trousers......Big purple legs (Got the Earthsoul leggings later, whew)
Light Woven Slippers .... I still wear these, these are awesome

So I was this big mass of orange yellow and purple, and even though it was fairly rare that I would end up in the gear, I hated how I looked.

The thing people fail to remember is our spirit regen in biped form was buffed so that if you have the spirit regen talent in resto you get decent mana5 during casting from spirit. In the end, swapping over to 4 piece moonglade from the above items gave me pretty much the same mana pool and mana regen once I was done gemming the items. The cloth stuff is great, and because is only designed for healing has a better stat distribution, but some of it is damn ugly.

 

• sadris

Bear Mangle is getting a 15% damage increase next patch.

 

• Exewut

Really? That's hilarious. I'd like a link though

[e] I suposse you mean these patchnotes?

from: http://pastey.net/11284

 

• sadris

From FoH IRC.

Changes to Mangle, Binding Heal, Circle of Healing, Vashj, Morogrim, and SW: Death (and more).

 

• Zyla

With every patchnote i regret my decision less and less. >.>

 

Aphyrax

If those are real it is time to QQ. Where is my decurse/depoision in tree form? Where is my increased survivability as resto in arena (the barkskin change does not cut it). Where my increased utility in doomkin form?