I must say that rogues at level up to 66-67 was always a giggle. Having played one my self i know how hard it is to keep a perfect stun-lock and even if they added blind I was never terrified. Now at level 70 they do alot more damage and Druids have not scaled the same way. I feel threatend when jumped by a rogue at level 70 even pre patch it's no more a giggle.

To me a pvp-druid is much more than just leet dps. But mastering the utility it brings. To be able to cyclone and dps at the same time while having hots on as many team mates as possibly. Be it in AV, Arena or wsg.

30% extra damage to shred is too much to neglect mangle.

NS = Instacast nature spell 3min cd
Mangle 30% extra bleed and SHRED for 15 secs.

mangle is 15 sec CD. => 7,5 tics with 20 energy = 150 energy. 105 (need one mangle)nrg is the same as 2,5 shreds.

This is during 15 sec leaving us 165 seconds left on the timer or 12 possible cycles. Not possible in reality and not everyone will crit but it gives you a measure that you can either do one heal for 4k

Actually my guild has been experimenting with a Moonkin tank (me) in 5 mans and it has gone pretty well. It started the day before the 2.0.10 patch, we were running arcatraz with a bear tank and he had to go right after the first boss. We couldn't find another bear/warrior/pally, and I didn't like the prospect of trying to hold aggro in bear form with moonkin talents. I had been noticing that I was generating a lot of threat easily in moonkin (gogo no threat talents), so I suggested trying it with me tanking in moonkin. You can see the results here (my guildy posted it):

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=1

I have since MT'd Shadow Labs and Sethekk Halls as Moonkin, and even offtanked moroes adds as moonkin. I think if I was fully decked out in the arena or pvp wyrmhide gear I could tank in heroics and raid content as well. What is really funny about it is that when I tank as moonkin I top the damage meter (unless tthe decked out fire mage is there, but I am not far behind him), mostly because I get to land a Starfire>Wrath>Moonfire>Swarm before anyone else touches the mob. Tanking while topping the damage meters is exactly the complaint that was lodged against bear tanks resulting in the nerf.

Aggro generation is NOT a problem, if you get the first shot and have at least 350ish spell damage then wrath spam will hold aggro. Mitigation is a little tougher to get than for bear, but I think the pvp gear (ironically) would be best for moontanking (high armor, sta, resilience, and int/spell dmg for aggro).

Hopefully moontanking will catch on enough for blizzard to "nerf" it by giving Moonkin Form innate 20% threat reduction.

Full feral cat is pain. we have an overlarge 5v5 team going with people from the raidgroup (where overlarge means "good chance of people not getting their 30 % in any week) and this week we rose a full 200 rating because the people who were up for arenas that day acidentially looked one hell of a lot like a stacked "melee dps group" holy pally/arms warr/marksman hunter/Full Feral/rogue. So funny to see opposing teams walk into that meatgrinder. Feline swiftness and running around like a loon to land mangle buffed shreds with as much of your energy bar as possible is key as this tends to make things die. .-) the usual bag of tricks is very good (and the two fights where I got away with doing a full tranquility on my group where so. very. funny. ) but mostly? dps. Lots, and lots of catform damage is what a tankbuild does best in pvp.

Theres so much awesome in this post, especially the sig.

Keep on this. Sounds awesome.

In 5's, I do more then our highest decked rogue or warrior. Add in the fact that I almost am never focused and can bear it up to stop an ma train on me, and things get silly. I honestly can't think of a better 3rd dps then a feral druid. Arms War for the ms, Rogue for the cc/stuns, and the feral for the beatstick.

It could very well be what I was doing, but in 5v5s as feral I always felt like somewhat of a liability and couldn't keep up in dps. It's probably because I didn't "stick" with the main assist as well as I could have.

On the other hand, as resto/balance I'm finding myself invaluable. With control of nature (superb arena talent btw) I can easily decide who I want to take out of the fight and I can keep juggling it between players to leave them at a disadvantage. Being able to stop a paladin from healing for 9 seconds (2 cyclones in a row) is just amazing

That was my oppinion too. If i was able to get to the first assist target in stealth it was dead, more or less. Then out and cyclone and into bear feral charge next target down. But the further up the ratings we got the more I found my self out of feral form and more or less assist healing/ dispelling/ cycloning/ rooting.

Today I am the third healer(8/11/42) and we play alot more controlled games. Even though my gear is completly feral (gz to me for having 70k honor spent on 'wrong' gear) i feel that I complete the team. I have always been (and still am) certain that resto druids lack in survivability, alot. And that the resto trees survivability talents are wrongfully placed and shaded by their superior pve talents (Nature's focus vs. Naturalist). I also think its unjustified that the resto tree should have totally 68 talents compared to balance and feral trees with a total 57 resp. 58 talents.

The first thing that struck me was that my healing bounus went down around 150 points, due to nurturing instincts i guess. But I also lost a whole lot of mana, HotW. Nothing much really but consider that I didn't get any cheaper spells or mana reg but more healing efficiency.


But all in all i am glad I tried it and feel confident that it will be nice with some new gear (another 70k honor ). Yet I got the feeling that my regrowth didn't crit the 60% it should but alot less. I hope it's my imagination and has nothing to do with resilience (wouldn't be surpraised though).

Seems like the trend I'm seeing here is that everyone plays with 2 other healers for 5v5. That really confirms the issue I've been experiencing. As feral spec, I cannot fill the role of one of the 2 primary healers in a 5v5 group. Like the last few posters, I'm finding that playing the role of a feral druid does not seem overly effective. I end up spending most of my time healing and cycloning, not DPSing. Having the bear survivability is nice at times, but I can't heal in bear form. Usually when the opposing team notices me and switches to me, I'm stuck in caster for awhile and when I do get into bear, I'm already at low HP and the survivability doesn't matter much.

The only thing I've found really match turning about the class is tranquility, but I'm convinced it's only the bad teams that let you get that off.

I don't have any experience with Zereketh but both these bosses are virtually identical, (seed of corruption vs. shell reflect) and Pandemonius' dps on heroic is indeed insane. We had a tank with 150 shadow buffed and he was unable to mitigate enough; he was past the point of being bursted down, but the sheer DPS done was enough to make 1 healer unviable, and 2 healers left us with not enough dps to kill the boss (~20% with all cooldowns used, heroism shield wall etc). I'm confident that it's doable with 2 healers and a very weak shadow resist set as we tried it, but everyone in the group needs to be truly talented and probably KZ/Gruul geared.

The lack of shadow prot craftables is irritating but a green set can be gathered in mere days and is sufficient. (Keep in mind there is zero physical damage done on either encounter, so you can use shadow protection greens of any type, though tanking in cloth may hurt your ego.) It's still hilarious that the one resist they forgot to add craftables for is the first resist you will find a real need for.

Since the bear nerf I find I've been pvping in cat a lot more often and honestly it isn't that much of a liability. On physical classes like rogues and warriors I learned the trick of popping out, barkskin and popping back in to contine ripping face as a cat with 20% physical dmg knocked off. It's really helped. I don't see bear as anything more than a damage soak for focus fire in pvp anymore.

Lost some armor last night upgrading from a couple quested world drops to kara epics but stamina and dodge went up again. I've been more of a dodge build all along so it is nice to finally back it with stam.

I really, really, love my Moroes lucky pocket watch. I cannot express this love in text properly.