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03/19/07, 4:32 PM
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#241
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Soda Popinski
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Originally Posted by Copernicus
On my druid alt, months ago I took Blackhand's Breath instead of Mark of Tyranny. Any advice on how to convince a GM to swap the quest reward?
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I just straight up told him I had no idea that the armor on the trinket was multiplied and there isn't a trinket to match it in the game.
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Originally Posted by missiletoad
I get enjoyment out of constructing buildings out of my fries and demolishing them with my chicken nugget army as I make monster noises. But you people. You people are FREAKS.
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03/19/07, 5:19 PM
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#242
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Frostmourne
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Originally Posted by Liar
Yeah, that's true. Another theory I had apart from "there is no 100% crit immunity" would have been the guess that the character panel might have rounded up Defense I got from Rating. Wouldn't surprise me with the 2.4 Defense Rating : 1 Defense ratio.
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Quite possible. The way my gear has worked out puts me on 417 or 418 defense most of the time. After every raid I check the stats and I've yet to be crit since we started running Kara.
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03/19/07, 6:28 PM
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#243
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Copernicus
On my druid alt, months ago I took Blackhand's Breath instead of Mark of Tyranny. Any advice on how to convince a GM to swap the quest reward?
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At least you didn't vendor it as well before finding out that you could swap it  I hope they they finally get arond to filling the itemization hole...
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03/19/07, 7:39 PM
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#244
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Don Flamenco
Human Warrior
Eredar (EU)
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Originally Posted by Tyriah
I was looking at a 34/0/28 build for HT spam, or something along those lines. Would someone be kind enough to link me a good distribution for this spec? I keep ending up with some extra points.
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http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0tMrzicshhZZxxckxqM
No oomkin, no 15% more spirit, no swiftmend, no imp tranq nor imp hots or tol but all necessary talents for your ht. And low rank subtlety, to (you can drop ooc if you really want to). Only one thing really hurts, you lack nature's focus! I've no idea how to get 5 points for it without losing dreamstate (maybe the main reason for droping so many points into balance). Think about http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=MtMrzicsZZxEc0xqMMo if you want to.
All balance damage talents are only filler, so won't matter what you pick.
Ofc you could pick Oomkin for more solo usefullness, then you may need to drop 10% of imp ht or 2% effective healing.
Additional notes, to help you, if you want to pick Oomkin:
How's imp ht working?
CT/3.5 = x, adding +0/10/20.
For HT r13 it look's like 3.5/3.5 = 1.00 , 100 + 20 = 120% of your +heal
For HT r4 it's 3.0/3.5 = 0.857 , 0.857 + 20 = 105.7% of your +heal (but think of downrank penality, to!)
How's gift of nature working?
[Baseheal + (CT/3.5 + imp HT Bonus)*+Heal*Downrankpenality]*1.x% of Gift of Nature
DR-Penality = 1 - (((Level at which next higher rank of Spell is Learned) + 5) / (Player's Level)) = Penalty [with a maximum result of 100%]
So, what's better? 2% over all or 10% for ht?
Using 1000 heal and HT 7,9,11,13
Healing Touch (Rank 7)
405 Mana 40 yd range
3.5 sec cast
(1028+1.1*1000*0,614)*1.1=1873
(1028+1.2*1000*0,614)*1.08=1905
Healing Touch (Rank 9)
(1656+1.1*1000*0,785)*1.1=2771
(1656+1.2*1000*0,785)*1.08=2805
Healing Touch (Rank 11)
(2472+1.1*1000*0,929)*1.1=3843
(2472+1.2*1000*0,929)*1.08=3873
Healing Touch (Rank 13)
(2952+1.1*1000)*1.1=4457
(2952+1.2*1000)*1.08=4484
Imp ht allways win, but while not using it all the time its losses it worth a little bit. Doubling +heal value won't change the result.
Last edited by Myul : 03/19/07 at 7:45 PM.
Reason: forget about something
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03/19/07, 9:00 PM
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#245
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Mr. Sandman
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Originally Posted by Liar
Yeah, that's true. Another theory I had apart from "there is no 100% crit immunity" would have been the guess that the character panel might have rounded up Defense I got from Rating. Wouldn't surprise me with the 2.4 Defense Rating : 1 Defense ratio.
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That is precisely what is happening.
I have 159 Defense Rating. That translates to +66.25 Defense Skill, however my Character sheet displays it as 417, or +67 Defense Skill. It appears to round all fractions up, which explains the screenshot.
If you have 156 Defense Rating and get crit I would be surprised.
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'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.
You can come with me. I can protect you.
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03/19/07, 9:51 PM
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#246
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Don Flamenco
Gnome Warlock
Dragonblight
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Originally Posted by Liar
Yeah, that's true. Another theory I had apart from "there is no 100% crit immunity" would have been the guess that the character panel might have rounded up Defense I got from Rating. Wouldn't surprise me with the 2.4 Defense Rating : 1 Defense ratio.
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Yeah, it would be more convincingly confusing if it read 416 defense or greater. Its at best ambiguous at this time.
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03/19/07, 9:56 PM
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#247
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Never, Mags. Never!
Human Death Knight
Turalyon (EU)
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Originally Posted by Kazanir
If you have 156 Defense Rating and get crit I would be surprised.
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Hah, I guess that was it. I only have 154 Defense Rating. Until next Wednesday when I get my PvP shoulders anyway. 
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03/19/07, 10:48 PM
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#248
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Don Flamenco
Human Warrior
Eredar (EU)
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To make it clearly:
1 defense skill = 1.5 defense rating @ 60 & 2.4 defense rating @ 70?
You need to avoid 2.x% crit since you have about -3% from SotF.
For every 25 defense skill you will get 1% dodge chance, (1% parry chance, 1% block chance) 1% increased chance to be missed and 1% decreased chance to be critically hit by physical attacks.
25*2.4= 60 defense rating for 1%, or 120 defense rating to become immun to crits versus a level 70 mob.
adding another 15 (5 per level) defense skill to avoid crits of level 73 mobs, you will get a number of 50+15=65 defense skill to reach, or 415 defense skill in total. This is 65*2.4=156 defense rating. There is at any time a chance from ~ 0.1% to get a crit, but one crit from 1000 isn't that much, is it?
You could also reach this goal by collecting resilience rating instead, 39.4 rating is needed @ 70 for -1% crit. Wearing about 102.44 resilience rating should have the same effect as wearing 156 defense rating. Wearing 3 pieces of the "Gladiator's Sanctuary" Set should make that deal and add a good load of armor and stamina with a lot of gemslots.
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03/19/07, 11:01 PM
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#249
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Bald Bull
Dukes
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account (EU)
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Originally Posted by Dakous
I forgot I wasn't crit immune when we pulled PM one week. Dancing over his corpse, I stopped caring. First time, for the entire encounter, I got a whopping one sunder on me total. Second week, it actually got down to three sunders, and that was scary, but certainly manageable. No flask, no buffs besides food, and one elixir. Being crit when you have all your mitigation (aka, not sundered to oblivion) is certainly less troublesome then being HIT when you have none. Additionally, and at the risk of inviting a roll-table discussion, he has to hit you before he can crit.
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I prefer having lots of mitigation via armour/defence and having a ton of health, and being used for fights where that's an advantage (gruul offtank/hydross offtank for example, although hydross is more resist based I forgot to switch gear on one pull and still survived fine because of a big health pool) and leave anything with special moves which can be avoided to warriors.
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There is at any time a chance from ~ 0.1% to get a crit, but one crit from 1000 isn't that much, is it?
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It's enough to have people screaming at you when you get one-shot at 5%, and you really don't want to be using the excuse "but it's a one in a thousand chance" in front of 24 angry people because "shit happens", and more often than not will do if you give it the chance.
As for trinkets - are many people still using SHotM and MoT tank-wise? I'm currently using the Argussian Compass and the Adamantite Figurine (crit immune and plenty past, but I still haven't seen moroes pocket watch drop which I'd much prefer) which are alright, the stam certainly helps on a lot of fights. I never picked up enchanting (partly laziness) and I got the eye of the beast back when I had no clue about mechanics of the game and vendored it shortly after as far as i can remember.
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03/19/07, 11:13 PM
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#250
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Bald Bull
Tauren Druid
Lightbringer
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Originally Posted by Zyla
The more I think about it, you're probably right. I've gone well over 20k pre patch, and I really got into a mindset about pure mitigation and let my hp slide a lot, like Boevis has been doing. It was just painfully obvious on prince that my hp wasnt cutting it.
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Every time I've taken a +Avoidance item over a +Armor item it also represented a Sta increase Ghoul Skin - Wardens, Verdant Gloves - Wastewalker, Ash Tempered - Nomads. I still wear Manimals as neither the Chess Chest nor Ghazan have dropped their belts for me. I'll never be fond of the "OMG STA" on the heavy clefthoof, nor of anything that has no DPS stats on them (out of the 6 Armor rings in BC they couldn't make 1 of them like Ring of Vek'lor?!) And I'd kill for a decent cloak with Armor, Sta, Hit, Defense, and Agi on it.
I use MoT and Adamantine Figurine (for the Def) but will be 'upgrading' to the SHotM when I get around to buying the PvP bracers. I loathe resilience as a tanking stat, but I'll take it when it means I can get more dodge and armor.
Last edited by Boevis : 03/19/07 at 11:30 PM.
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03/19/07, 11:58 PM
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#251
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Bald Bull
Dukes
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account (EU)
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Originally Posted by Boevis
And I'd kill for a decent cloak with Armor, Sta, Hit, Defense, and Agi on it.
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Just convince your guild to go back and do Anub'rekan, I believe CryptFiend has everything
212 Armor
+14 Stamina
Equip: Increases defense rating by 10.
Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 12.
Equip: Increases your hit rating by 10.
Also technically the Heavy Clefthoof leggings have as much avoidance as your Nomads (I think anyway) with the benefit of 34 defence so you can swap the Figurine for SHotM. You can get 4hit/4agi, 4agi/6stam, 4agi/6stam, and end up with 12 agi (~1dodge), 54 stam, 4 hit, 4 dodge rating, and 34 defence rating (~10 defence, 0.4%dodge/miss). Unfortunately it would still lack any real offensive stats though - not sure if you really want to lose out on that if you're switching to the PvP bracers anyway. The other thing I prefer to keep in mind is that you need 5 blue gems for the 18 stam/5% stun resist gem (which I currently have and keep forgetting about the gem requirement, which is a pain when thinking about replacing stuff but enough of a stam boost to be worth worrying about), so if you're getting that or thinking about it, you need to be looking at gear that will get you that requirement (obviously I have no idea what you're looking at upgrade-wise).
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03/20/07, 12:39 AM
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#252
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by sordee
For tanks, any CRIT on specific mobs in a Heroic/Karazhan can cause you to die. (with the preceding or next shot as healer doesn't have enough time to react.)
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With the preceding or next shot being, more times then not, dodged, the 2% (that's with 0 defense and SOTF, right? - another 1% from casually +def/+res items is pretty trivial) - 1 in 100 hits to be crit, and the hit before and after have to connect... 0.4^3 * 0.01 = 0.00064.
Admittedly, I haven't had as much experience as some of the illustrious peers here, but I've yet to have a death in Karazhan that was crit related.
Am I saying no to defense/resilience? No, most certainly not. Any item that's remotely attractive, I take it and thank for bonus. But crit "immunity" isn't even on my radar (but I do have a clefthoof set put together - I used to wear it, but I view the 2.0.10 nerf as Blizzard's memo to me that I should have paid attention to the agility buff instead).
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Originally Posted by dukes
I prefer having lots of mitigation via armour/defence
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The gear swap I did, I believe I was capped around ~69%. I'm at ~63% now, and it was a trade up of four times as much dodge. While the iDPS is a significant fraction change (37-31 = 6, 6/31 ~ 20%), moving from ~20% to ~60% is a huge improvement.
Of course, there's room for multiple sets of gear for multiple preferences, and you've tanked Hydross and I haven't, but these are my thoughts, such as they are. I did not like the agility tank premise at first, either, but I took the memo.
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Everybody is your brother until the rent comes due.
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03/20/07, 12:53 AM
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#253
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Soda Popinski
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I wonder how far away, with all sorts of crazy world buffs, potions and the like, a fully geared druid can push their total avoidance.
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03/20/07, 1:40 AM
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#254
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Bald Bull
Tauren Druid
Lightbringer
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I actually had a Cryptfiend cloak for a while, but it falls behind Thoriumweave in both armor and stamina (364 hp for me in bear) for a very minor dodge/defense gain. But you are right about those pants, I've just never considered clefthoof items because my defense is easily covered by jewelry items and a couple sockets. I'll have to take an in depth look at it later, though this makes me wonder if there's any worthwhile rings that aren't Armor/Def, the only thing I see is the delicate eternium which has a pathetic 15 Sta.
As for max dodge, I'd wager it's above 90% but with a significant drop in armor.
edit: http://ctprofiles.net/3769940 with Wastewalker pants instead of nomad. (I'm sure there's some 'of agility' items I could have taken for higher dodge). Unlisted is 11 Sockets and 136 dodge rating. 497 + 88(sockets) + 18 + 88 + 35 + 15 + 25 + 20 = 786 * 1.1 = 864 Agility = 58.58% Dodge + 193/18.9 + 4 = 72.79 + 91/2.4/25*2 + 5 = 80.82% Avoidance + click for another 14.29 = 95.11% woo! That's Mark, GoA, Elixir, Mastery, Ground Scorpok, Food, and then Kings. Throw on darkmoon and hakkar heart if you want a bit more.
Last edited by Boevis : 03/20/07 at 6:33 PM.
Reason: Forgot the +4 from swiftness
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03/20/07, 3:51 AM
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#255
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King Hippo
Tauren Druid
Twisting Nether (EU)
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Originally Posted by Boevis
I actually had a Cryptfiend cloak for a while, but it falls behind Thoriumweave in both armor and stamina (364 hp for me in bear) for a very minor dodge/defense gain. But you are right about those pants, I've just never considered clefthoof items because my defense is easily covered by jewelry items and a couple sockets. I'll have to take an in depth look at it later, though this makes me wonder if there's any worthwhile rings that aren't Armor/Def, the only thing I see is the delicate eternium which has a pathetic 15 Sta.
As for max dodge, I'd wager it's above 90% but with a significant drop in armor.
edit: http://ctprofiles.net/3769940 with Wastewalker pants instead of nomad. (I'm sure there's some 'of agility' items I could have taken for higher dodge). Unlisted is 11 Sockets and 136 dodge rating. 497 + 88(sockets) + 18 + 88 + 35 + 15 + 25 + 20 = 786 * 1.1 = 864 Agility = 58.58% Dodge + 193/18.9 = 68.79 + 91/2.4/25*2 + 5 = 76.82% Avoidance + click for another 14.29 = 91.11% woo! That's Mark, GoA, Elixir, Mastery, Ground Scorpok, Food, and then Kings. Throw on darkmoon and hakkar heart if you want a bit more.
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If you want to go balls-out for agility, convince some friends to farm the zone rare-elites for "of the Monkey" blues. I got the Drakehide Chest off Nemathion yesterday - 278AC/39agi/60sta.
If you can stand the farming, you would end up with some amazing agi/stam figures if you kitted yourself out completely with these items. I'd say you could add another 100agi to your example easily and would have really good sta too.
I made a list for anyone interested:
Last edited by Daboran : 03/20/07 at 5:10 AM.
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