Druid discussion thread - 3 roles, 5 stages of grief - Page 25

Mistaya · 04/09/07, 9:14 AM

But that's a lvl 70 mob... I can say with absolute certainty that our hit cap is above 5% for specials on lvl 73~ (raid lvl) mobs. I can't recall missing a shred after 7.5% or so, (dodges yes, but no misses unless I'm blind) but at 5% misses are very noticable, I've had chains of 2-3 missed shreds.

I don't generally watch my autoattack numbers because my threat values aren't really affected by them, while getting 3 crit shreds in a row is important to note, heh. Not sure if there is a disparity in how much hit is needed for white dmg vs. yellow but I doubt it.

Boevis · 04/09/07, 10:02 AM

 Hit    Skill Rating    Expected Miss     Actual
4.50%         0             .5%           0.55%
4.69%        18            0.0%           0.0%
4.44%        18             .24%           .05%
3.76%        18             .92%           .64% (small sample)

Everything but the 3.76 was done with over a half hour (1800+ attacks) of testing each vs level 70 Haalum.

4.95%         0            .25%           .45%        vs 71

If what I gather from the rogue thread, 18 skill rating (+4 skill) should give me ~+.4% Hit, not the .32% I'd except according to Crezax, and by comparison, +5 defense from mob level should give me -.5% hit instead of the .2% I'd except from standard defense tooltip. This would change my values to an expected .16% Miss at the 4.44%, .84% miss at the 3.76%, and .55% miss at the 4.95% vs 71's ...

Much closer than my results and within reason considering my relatively small data field. However, I'm feeling fairly confident that the druid base miss is actually 4.9% and not an even 5% As this brings all results thus far within .1% deviation.

Primal · 04/09/07, 1:30 PM

There's been an obvious change in pace in this thread that was due to the recent bear changes. I wasn't around for it, I was still leveling up. I'll be the first to say, I didn't see what happened with it to the full extent. The change in feral talents didn't affect me at the time, as cat dps was (mostly) unchanged.

Post nerf, as it stands right now, I do know that feral (bear) tanking is still viable, at least to start with in Kharazan. What I do not know, and what I cannot glean from this thread is what ARE acceptable numbers as it stands now.

Having downed Attumen with relative ease last night, what sort of numbers should I be looking for suppposing we're going to clear Kharazan with me tanking or off-tanking when needed? Last night, buffed, non flasked, and non elixired I hit 18k hp, 15k armor. Add in proper food, elixirs, flasks, etc, and I imagine I could easily break 20k. I'm seeing alot of people using 20K ac as a baseline, and then others saying evasion-type tanking is where druids post "changes" should be looking.

Toothpaste · 04/09/07, 1:57 PM

While lots of dodge is nice, you can only go so far until you sacrifice too many of your other stats. Personally, 20k armor is the minimum I'd go for. You've got plenty of HP, but not nearly enough armor. Your dodge% is only so reliable. Eventually, you'll eat an unlucky chain of not dodging and be a very dead bear.

For just starting KZ, there are all the high armor quest rewards (Verdant Gloves, Umberhowl's Collar, etc.) available to help up that armor. I think when I first started tanking in KZ I was around 21k armor. I had a lot less hp then you, but there's really no need for that much any time soon. I usually sit around 21k hp flasked and buffed when OTing Gruul, so that much HP for the beginning of KZ is a bit much.

Also, don't forget to reach 2.6% to not be crit from defense and resilience!

Copernicus · 04/09/07, 1:58 PM

For the Moonglade 2-piece bonus (35 dodge rating with Rejuvenation) which two pieces are the the best options if I want to get the set bonus. Along the same lines, are druids keeping the set for general purpose healing or eventually abandoning it for more effecient pieces? And if so, when did you abandon it?

This might have been discussed earlier, but if it was I couldn't find it with search options.

Solstice · 04/09/07, 2:14 PM

Personally I would only recommend Moonglade in a situation where you're playing as a hybrid, and certainly not for a pure healing roll. I used 2 pieces for a little while soon after hitting 70 because I was often needed to play as dps/offhealer for heroics... once we'd all geared up a bit a 2nd healer was no longer necessary and my Moonglade set has stayed in the bank ever since.

Although for some reason I don't feel I should be advocating the gimping of ones AC with cloth, for a restoration build I'd feel a lot stronger with Hallowed over Moonglade. I don't think it would be worth even keeping 2 pieces Moonglade for the set bonus unless you're planning on doing some dps in the same gear. If you're determined to do this however I'd go with the gloves and the shoulders (socketeted with Royal Nightseye's) so that the impact on you're overall healing stats is minimal.

Primal · 04/09/07, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by Toothpaste

For just starting KZ, there are all the high armor quest rewards (Verdant Gloves, Umberhowl's Collar, etc.) available to help up that armor. I think when I first started tanking in KZ I was around 21k armor. I had a lot less hp then you, but there's really no need for that much any time soon. I usually sit around 21k hp flasked and buffed when OTing Gruul, so that much HP for the beginning of KZ is a bit much.

Also, don't forget to reach 2.6% to not be crit from defense and resilience!

Finished the whole "uncrittable" thing with the first run into KZ with the faction ring. It appears that I'm going to be hounding some friends to do Drakk for the Mark of Tyranny, since I never picked it up while leveling.

I picked up Umberhowl's as well as the belt from the quest line, Verdant Gloves will help significantly.

Thanks much, Toothpaste. It at least gives me a direction to work in. (AC instead of more HP for the time being)

Zeln · 04/09/07, 2:55 PM

My guild is working on the Shade of Aran. I primarly am the second tank. I was well over 20k armor already before I started tanking Kara. So what I tried to do was get to 30% unbuffed dodge while maintaining around 1k stamina (in bear) unbuffed while maintaining at least 20k armor.

For my healing gear, I wear a lot of Moonglade. And honestly, it was because I was tired of looking like a big giant cow clown.

Cloth healing head from Cenarion Rep....Big orange hat
Tier 1 lookalike shoulders from Bot.... Looks like I was attacked by a big yellow bush
Vicar's Cloak....Purple cloak (Ok, I still wear this)
Hallowed Trousers......Big purple legs (Got the Earthsoul leggings later, whew)
Light Woven Slippers .... I still wear these, these are awesome

So I was this big mass of orange yellow and purple, and even though it was fairly rare that I would end up in the gear, I hated how I looked.

The thing people fail to remember is our spirit regen in biped form was buffed so that if you have the spirit regen talent in resto you get decent mana5 during casting from spirit. In the end, swapping over to 4 piece moonglade from the above items gave me pretty much the same mana pool and mana regen once I was done gemming the items. The cloth stuff is great, and because is only designed for healing has a better stat distribution, but some of it is damn ugly.

• sadris · 04/09/07, 5:53 PM

Bear Mangle is getting a 15% damage increase next patch.

Exewut · 04/09/07, 6:07 PM

Originally Posted by sadris

Bear Mangle is getting a 15% damage increase next patch.

Really? That's hilarious. I'd like a link though

[e] I suposse you mean these patchnotes?

3 Druid
4 -Bear Mangle damage increased by +15% but bonus threat has been reduced so threat should be the same
5 -Omen of Clarity no longer castable in Moonkin or Tree
6 -Swiftmend will now properly penalize +healing benefits for casting low rank Rejuvs or Regrowths
7 -Barkskin now reduces all damage taken, duration reduced to 12 second with cooldown reduced to 1 minute, Tooltip changed to say it can be used while frozen, incapacitated, cowering in fear (functionality always present but wasn't in the tooltip)
8 -Cyclone will no longer work on hunters with "The Beast Within" active or hunter pets wtih "Bestial Wrath" active
9 -Epic Flight Form quest opened up similar in nature to Paladin/Warlock epic mount quests. Also adds a new boss to Sethikk Halls

from: http://pastey.net/11284

• sadris · 04/09/07, 7:19 PM

From FoH IRC.

Changes to Mangle, Binding Heal, Circle of Healing, Vashj, Morogrim, and SW: Death (and more).

Zyla · 04/10/07, 2:01 PM

With every patchnote i regret my decision less and less. >.>

Aphyrax · 04/10/07, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by Exewut

Really? That's hilarious. I'd like a link though

[e] I suposse you mean these patchnotes?

from: http://pastey.net/11284

If those are real it is time to QQ. Where is my decurse/depoision in tree form? Where is my increased survivability as resto in arena (the barkskin change does not cut it). Where my increased utility in doomkin form?

Aphyrax · 04/10/07, 2:47 PM

Originally Posted by Solstice

Personally I would only recommend Moonglade in a situation where you're playing as a hybrid, and certainly not for a pure healing roll. I used 2 pieces for a little while soon after hitting 70 because I was often needed to play as dps/offhealer for heroics... once we'd all geared up a bit a 2nd healer was no longer necessary and my Moonglade set has stayed in the bank ever since.

Although for some reason I don't feel I should be advocating the gimping of ones AC with cloth, for a restoration build I'd feel a lot stronger with Hallowed over Moonglade. I don't think it would be worth even keeping 2 pieces Moonglade for the set bonus unless you're planning on doing some dps in the same gear. If you're determined to do this however I'd go with the gloves and the shoulders (socketeted with Royal Nightseye's) so that the impact on you're overall healing stats is minimal.

While the stat distribution on Moonglade is h-o-r-r-i-b-l-e 35 dodge rating is in my view better in 25 man raids than some extra INT or SPI or healing as it increases the effective healing of everyone by reducing the damage taken. And it does make a noticeable difference. So I am somewhat reluctant to get rid of it.

Quasar · 04/11/07, 2:36 PM

Since it seems the Arena gear is superlative in some areas compared to other tanking alternatives (looking at maybe Chest, pants... maybe helm), I'm seeing about 2v2 with a Thunder-wielding MS warrior in my guild, or otherwise (or in addition to) my casual 5v5 team. I assume stamina is king here, though most of my healing gear isn't exactly based with that in mind. Two questions, then. You guys in 2v2 (or others) find yourselves wearing high stamina non-healing gear (clefthoof /chuckle) for survivability while healing? And I know people hate the 'rate my spec' question, but would this (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=MzjZZxEItcqMxst) be a feasible one?