I don't know if outside classes are allowed in this feral fest, but things like innervate, combat res, abolish poison (hello Maexxna) etc. are pretty good. Also as a rogue, getting a mangle on a mob in a raiding environment is a really sweet boost to a finisher, especially when using a druid tank with no armor reduction.
Last I checked, no other class have any other abilities which work like these. Maybe abolish vs poison totem, but there's a reason why you still used it, because it ticks a lot faster than the totem pulses.
Not to rain on anybody's parade, but this is like getting all excited about sinister strike, garotte and slice and dice.
I would ask if people would not get hung by the class descriptions. They are guidelines for beginners and doesn't necessarily accurately reflect the class in what it does or does best. Class descriptions shouldn't be looked at if you consider yourself a pro-wow player.
I would ask if people would not get hung by the class descriptions. They are guidelines for beginners and doesn't necessarily accurately reflect the class in what it does or does best. Class descriptions shouldn't be looked at if you consider yourself a pro-wow player.
Well of course, but with the complete lack of communication from the designers, this is the only message we get as to what they intend for us to be. The fact that it has changed so many times speaks volumes about the lack of coherent and consistant ideas about the role of the class.
Originally Posted by Apate
Zyla, International Man of a Certain Standard.
Originally Posted by Wraithlin
What have you brought to this discussion? The usual vacuous and contentless tripe that you contribute to these forums - no more and no less.
I'd like to note how horrible our healing itemization is as well.
The few decent true "druid" healing items are from heroics/Karazhan. Good luck getting into a heroic group unless you're feral. Healing main in heroics is mostly hell due to non-ooc res, lack of a safety button (divine shield/powerword shield/earthshield), and a completely useless 41pt restoration talent.
Off-healing in a heroic us useless, as you could just be replaced with a shadowpriest who can now damage, heal, restore mana, etc.
Now, as for non-heroic items, I'd like to point out the entire Moonglade set. A hybrid set that's a waste of time. The only healing gear I've seen that's even a decent upgrade over Tier 2 is an occasional piece cloth, and alot of Tier 3 I haven't even seen good replacements for til raiding.
Blizzard really seems to be pushing us towards a "hybrid" roll, yet that also "pushes us out of 5 mans."
But enough of the public discussion-type whining and onto theorycrafting.
Basedon Karazhan raiding and occasionally Gruul's Lair, what sort of build would be better for an ideal druid focusing on hots/regen? Debating on treeform simply due to regrowth spam/swiftmend on (SOME) fights, but I'm not sure if tossing points up into balance for dreamstate or not. Long fights where alot of people take damage (especially 5 mans) have become a huge problem lately as the hots don't seem to do enough and the direct heals OoM me too quick. Suggestions?
Last edited by Kelyas : 03/05/07 at 2:26 AM.
Reason: prassed buttan too quick
Blizzard really seems to be pushing us towards a "hybrid" roll, yet that also "pushes us out of 5 mans."
???
Druids are great if they play as hybrids in 5 mans. In heroics, I'm often off tanking, DPSing, and secondary healing through out an instance. Now unfortunately a resto spec druid wouldn't fill any of those three roles that well though could do off tanking but... why would you have a resto druid as your secondary healer.
Druids are great if they play as hybrids in 5 mans. In heroics, I'm often off tanking, DPSing, and secondary healing through out an instance. Now unfortunately a resto spec druid wouldn't fill any of those three roles that well though could do off tanking but... why would you have a resto druid as your secondary healer.
My main issue with the hybrid roll is that it is based on spells/ abilities and gear rathar than talent.
I cant heal almost as good in a Feral specc and vice versa since I can put on healing/ feral gear pushing me up towards 900 in +healing with feral specc. But to me to really shine in as a hybrid I really need both Feral gear and Resto gear in the same fight. But feral gear often lacks both +healing and/ or Int and due to the cost of shapeshifting and bigger heals mana becomes an issue.
Balance and resto seem to have more in common with the dps/ healing gear have more similarities. But I havent tried tanking in Moonkin ^.^
Good luck getting into a heroic group unless you're feral. Healing main in heroics is mostly hell due to non-ooc res, lack of a safety button (divine shield/powerword shield/earthshield), and a completely useless 41pt restoration talent.
Off-healing in a heroic us useless, as you could just be replaced with a shadowpriest who can now damage, heal, restore mana, etc.
I highly disagree with the above statement. The only button that can be considered as a "safety" one from the aforementioned is divine shield. The rest just prolong the inevitable death if something goes wrong. ToL is a wasted talent for heroics. If you want to be effective at healing there, use a hybrid resto/balance build. As for shadowpriests, I'm sorry to report if they are being used as an "off-healer" and not a pure dpser, then expect to suffer, especially on end bosses where you need 2 pure healers that can compliment each other and have enough regen to last for as long as its necessary.
Now, as for non-heroic items, I'd like to point out the entire Moonglade set. A hybrid set that's a waste of time. The only healing gear I've seen that's even a decent upgrade over Tier 2 is an occasional piece cloth, and alot of Tier 3 I haven't even seen good replacements for til raiding.
T4 is decent. It's a marginal upgrade, point taken, but its set bonuses along with those of Dreamwalker, are well worth it. Other than that it needs a buff yes (as much as the other T4-T5 sets need). The Moonglade set fails more than Genesis, when it comes to raiding.
Basedon Karazhan raiding and occasionally Gruul's Lair, what sort of build would be better for an ideal druid focusing on hots/regen? Debating on treeform simply due to regrowth spam/swiftmend on (SOME) fights, but I'm not sure if tossing points up into balance for dreamstate or not. Long fights where alot of people take damage (especially 5 mans) have become a huge problem lately as the hots don't seem to do enough and the direct heals OoM me too quick. Suggestions?
If you want to focus on hots, you need at least 36 points in resto for swiftmend and empowered rejuvenation. If you want to focus on direct heals that you can spam then you need at least 33 points in balance and 27 in resto for dreamstate/guidance/moonglow/grace/intensity etc up to empowered touch. You can't be 100% effective at both, I'm sorry. You will have to make a decision sooner or later and I agree with you that hots, save for a few special occasions, can do little in the presence of uncontrolled spikes.
Women's breasts can be modeled as a cone and measured as V = (Db^2*h*.785)/3 and since breasts can be thought of as an amorphous fluid, you just have to worry about containing the volume of the breast.
If you want to focus on hots, you need at least 36 points in resto for swiftmend and empowered rejuvenation. If you want to focus on direct heals that you can spam then you need at least 33 points in balance and 27 in resto for dreamstate/guidance/moonglow/grace/intensity etc up to empowered touch. You can't be 100% effective at both, I'm sorry. You will have to make a decision sooner or later and I agree with you that hots, save for a few special occasions, can do little to in the presence of uncontrolled spikes.
I would say this is one of the best descriptions of two main approaches to healing at the moment.
I would add that with a few well placed Restoration and Feral talents you can become an effective hybrid healer with the right itemisation, this comes mainly from the Heroic hybrid items Bark chip boots ect.
Sadly the hybrid healing approach will only work in a small scale environment.
The Moonglade set fails more than Genesis, when it comes to raiding.
I socketed and enchanted the Moonglade helm and shoulders for healing, i.e. mostly for PvE. It doesn't seem that bad really, i counted the total stats for these 2 pieces together as follows (incl. 4 blue gems + HH helm enchant +scryers _honored_ enchant):
+36 sta
+47 int
+35 spi
+162 healing
+14 mp5
Meta gem: 2% on spellcast - next spell instant cast (to be changed somewhat in next patch)
set bonus: Your Rejuvenation spell now also grants 35 dodge rating.
And of course there's also a total of 57 points of useless (for PvE healing) str/agi, but all in all, it's not that bad. That's mostly due to sockets, i checked thottbot for other blue leather helm/shoulder pieces for healing, and they all lack sockets. Plus those nice healing shoulders from Botanica will get nerfed. Of course, if you are further in the raiding game then you probably have epics that are much better and have sockets too, but my raid guild is just starting in Karazhan so I can see myself wearing those 2 pieces for a while.
But yeah, I also have the moonglade chest and legs in the bank and I have no idea what to do with them. My spec is 0/30/31 but I prefer my gear to be single-purpose.
I socketed and enchanted the Moonglade helm and shoulders for healing, i.e. mostly for PvE. It doesn't seem that bad really, i counted the total stats for these 2 pieces together as follows (incl. 4 blue gems + HH helm enchant +scryers _honored_ enchant):
+36 sta
+47 int
+35 spi
+162 healing
+14 mp5
Meta gem: 2% on spellcast - next spell instant cast (to be changed somewhat in next patch)
set bonus: Your Rejuvenation spell now also grants 35 dodge rating.
And of course there's also a total of 57 points of useless (for PvE healing) str/agi, but all in all, it's not that bad. That's mostly due to sockets, i checked thottbot for other blue leather helm/shoulder pieces for healing, and they all lack sockets. Plus those nice healing shoulders from Botanica will get nerfed. Of course, if you are further in the raiding game then you probably have epics that are much better and have sockets too, but my raid guild is just starting in Karazhan so I can see myself wearing those 2 pieces for a while.
But yeah, I also have the moonglade chest and legs in the bank and I have no idea what to do with them. My spec is 0/30/31 but I prefer my gear to be single-purpose.
Ofc it depends on what gear you were using up to that point, I'm not debating the fact that some pieces may be viable upgrades but overall if you are in a guild that allows you to obtain better gear I'd settle for less to get better in the long run (saving gems as well). As for meta gems, the problem with them at the moment is the pure fact that they practically require you to "break" older sets (so to speak) in order to activate a marginal (and in many cases, unreliable) bonus.
Exactly what fight on heroic do you need 2 'pure healers' for? The most healing intensive heroic fight I have done so far is the endboss of slavepens if you don't keep the druid for the nature buff alive, and that's perfectly doable with one main healer with ashadow priest assist healing.
The lack of an ooc rez for druids just means that if you have a resto druid as the main healer you can bring another hybrid (shadow priest, enh/ele shaman, prot paladin, etc) into the group for the rezzing.
1. Denial: Cat form.
Prowl. Maybe I can hide from this patch!
2. Anger: Shift to caster.
Yell at devs. Yell at warriors on the forums who wouldn't stop posting nerf threads.
3. Bargaining: Shift to bear.
"Maybe just the AC and HP nerfs? Ok, damage nerfs are ok, but maybe return threat modifiers?"
4. Depression: Shift back to caster (naturally).
Do math on 41 point resto. Cry.
5. Acceptance. Teleport: Moonglade, respec 34/0/27, shift to Moonkin.
/dance. All worries forgotten!
Honestly though, I've been looking at our (very small) guild's probable Heroics core, and I'm thinking 34/0/27 is going to work out pretty well for me.
A resto shaman, a def paladin and I will be more or less the core of the group. The paladin specifically rolled to tank and the shaman likes healing. I've tried all of the specs, and while I very much enjoy bear tanking, this seems to be the most useful as a hybrid healer. The complimentary talents really seem to work well.
In theory, I'd like to play the moonkn as somewhat of an offtank. I *think* that with a bit of pvp gear I'll be able to have the AC/sta to hold up to a beating without undue sacrifices in actual damage output. I actually tanked a few bosses as I was levelling balance, and while they weren't exactly easy fights that way (particualarly obvious after coming back and doing them as a bear) they were doable. I would only be doing this on trash--the pally would be the main tank. I'd heal or DPS as needed the rest of the time.
Does it seem reasonable to expect it will work in higher content?
You can offtank fine in regular content, but I don't think you'll be able to offtank anything of significance in heroics as a moonkin for extended periods.
Exactly what fight on heroic do you need 2 'pure healers' for? The most healing intensive heroic fight I have done so far is the endboss of slavepens if you don't keep the druid for the nature buff alive, and that's perfectly doable with one main healer with ashadow priest assist healing.
The lack of an ooc rez for druids just means that if you have a resto druid as the main healer you can bring another hybrid (shadow priest, enh/ele shaman, prot paladin, etc) into the group for the rezzing.
Try Shattered Halls/Arcatraz Heroic. While most (if not all fights) are doable with the odd group, that doesn't mean its optimal or diminishes the chances that something will go wrong that you will not recover from with 1 person taking all the healing strain.
In theory, I'd like to play the moonkn as somewhat of an offtank. I *think* that with a bit of pvp gear I'll be able to have the AC/sta to hold up to a beating without undue sacrifices in actual damage output. I actually tanked a few bosses as I was levelling balance, and while they weren't exactly easy fights that way (particualarly obvious after coming back and doing them as a bear) they were doable. I would only be doing this on trash--the pally would be the main tank. I'd heal or DPS as needed the rest of the time.
Does it seem reasonable to expect it will work in higher content?
Depends on your definition of higher content. If you mean raids/heroics then chances are it won't work as expected. The moonkin lacks a lot of utility, ability wise, when it comes to tanking in comparison to the bear not to mention aggro generating, damage reducing talents.
You can offtank fine in regular content, but I don't think you'll be able to offtank anything of significance in heroics as a moonkin for extended periods.
With the equal armor, and the superior threat generation from bear form - if you get enough stamina gear you can replace Warriors once more!
Good luck getting into a heroic group unless you're feral.
Raiding Balance Druid here with 750+ Spellpower and 23% chance to crit.
I DPS pretty effing hard, and I'm thinking soon that people will start noticing the Boomkin is not what it used to be - and is now quite PVE viable. I'm topping mages sometimes, but these mages are lesser geared. Same thing with Warlocks.
I've had more requests on my server for my DPS than I have for my heals or tanking ability sum total. This is mainly b/c if shit hits the fan, I can pop a tranquility, a battle rez, and shift back up and keep nuking if I Innervate myself. All that costs me my whole bar of mana damn near. But yeah that's the "oh shit heroic useful" side of balance.
Just got to be a good player. Every spec and class has its use in heroics.
Raiding Balance Druid here with 750+ Spellpower and 23% chance to crit.
I DPS pretty effing hard, and I'm thinking soon that people will start noticing the Boomkin is not what it used to be - and is now quite PVE viable. I'm topping mages sometimes, but these mages are lesser geared. Same thing with Warlocks.
I've had more requests on my server for my DPS than I have for my heals or tanking ability sum total. This is mainly b/c if shit hits the fan, I can pop a tranquility, a battle rez, and shift back up and keep nuking if I Innervate myself. All that costs me my whole bar of mana damn near. But yeah that's the "oh shit heroic useful" side of balance.
Just got to be a good player. Every spec and class has its use in heroics.
I found with with mediocre (550, but high endurance) gear pulling agro was far too common due to 0 threat reduction in 5mans, in raiding with that high spelldamage/crit you must die somewhat frequently on trash and run oom on basicly every boss (unless flask of mighty restoration ofc) even with general consumables.
Try Shattered Halls/Arcatraz Heroic. While most (if not all fights) are doable with the odd group, that doesn't mean its optimal or diminishes the chances that something will go wrong that you will not recover from with 1 person taking all the healing strain.
I never said only one healer. That would be doable but very difficult, I meant one pure healer plus one hybrid who can help heal on the rough parts.
I did shattered halls only up to the Warlock boss (was very late and we were doing it just to summon nightbane). Every other heroic I have done has been perfectly fine with one pure healer + one hybrid.
Yeah, i've already googled it after Lorewanderer post. Just didn't know it was common term and not some sikrit druid stuff
Originally Posted by zeidrich
Women's breasts can be modeled as a cone and measured as V = (Db^2*h*.785)/3 and since breasts can be thought of as an amorphous fluid, you just have to worry about containing the volume of the breast.
I've actually tanked heroic pens with a tree of life druid healing me, and a shadow priest. With that setup you really have five hots going (rejuvenation, lifebloom, regrowth, vampiric embrace, improved leader of the pack).
With a shadow priest helping out, his longevity was astounding. He only had to leave tree form a couple times during the whole run really.
I've actually tanked heroic pens with a tree of life druid healing me, and a shadow priest. With that setup you really have five hots going (rejuvenation, lifebloom, regrowth, vampiric embrace, improved leader of the pack).
With a shadow priest helping out, his longevity was astounding. He only had to leave tree form a couple times during the whole run really.
How were the Defender packs? and especially the last one.
While HoTs are nice early on untill agro is established, I've always found myself needing to HT fairly quickly to compensate for the risky burst the tank can get.
What makes me even more unhappy about leather healing itemization is that apparently I have to wear cloth in order to get decen mana5 on items. Sure, moonglade has gems, but the tier 1 lookalike set (Mostly found in heroics) has a total of about 7mana5 on it.
So in order to get large amounts of mana5, I'm currently wearing a few pieces of cloth. As a druid with limited methods of deaggro, my instincts as a druid pulling aggro are to go bear and not attack until the tank pulls the mob off me. By wearing cloth I am greatly reducing my length of survival.
03/04/07, 7:13 AM
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