Yes, the old bonus is better for rage starved situations. The new bonus is better for unlimited rage encounters. I really don't see the problem here. Its still a nice buff either way.

Dont forget we are getting 15% extra damage to mangle in the next patch too (assuming this change has not been removed!).

And yes, words can very aptly express it! This is a buff for bear tanks in a raid environment. On the feral raiding set. Looks pretty good to me!

But... Warriors are one of the classes Feral druids are really strong against in pvp. If you're wearing crap, don't have a good feral AP weapon and are getting creamed by a warrior with Deep Thunder, you should gear up as much as he has and try again. Learn when to 'tank' him in bear and when to rip him apart in cat. Equally geared with no healer backing them, the feral druid -should- win the fight. Just bleed him to death and beat him down.

Our place in PVE is pretty solid right now. We're the best OT's in the game, that is our strong point. In PVP, our place is more of an interrupter and harasser than a flat DD. Play to your strengths.

bash is instant cyclone is not, you can use bash in the middle of combat instead of shifting out to use a stun, I'll use bash before warstomp for instance if I am in bear form. Its a matter of pref I guess but I would rather have one extra stun, I cant tell you how many times that has allowed me to solo PVE content that otherwise I would nto have been able. Also in PVP it pwns.

The point is, you're shifting out anyway. I believe what he's saying is instead of putting talent points into an extra second of Bash, instead when you need to Heal: Bash, shift, Cyclone, Heal, shift.

Personally, I like the improved duration.

I hear ya its just easier for me to get the heal off when facing the multitudes of interrrupts, gouge, blind, fear, earthshock... Druids who try to cyclone me get maimed or warstomped. I'm pretty fluid in my feral combat and I often shift in and out between the three forms. I also use bash for getting distance on someone Bash -> cheetah or cat sprint -> flight form. Believe it or not that extra second makes a huge difference. Not to mention thats one more second some is sitting there bleeding to death. It also compliments the talents I put in resto to get my big heal to a 3 second instead of a 3.5.

If I was running with a hybrid build like 0/30/31 and/or was not PvPing very much, I agree that I'd have a much harder time justifying the expense of 2 talent points for Brutal Impact. With my current build (0/44/17) though, the other things those points could get me aren't as attractive. I had the 50% Strength --> +heal for a while, but found it a little blah. Improving my Mangle damage isn't a big priority, and I'm steadfastly refusing to take that talent just on principle until Blizzard realizes how badly it sucks now. Sinking 2 points into Primal Tenacity is arguable on paper, but the results aren't as visible or reliable as having a little bit more cushion on my stuns for farming and PvP.

Kind of a tangent, but ever since Pounce got included in Brutal Impact and no longer required you to be behind your target, I've found that Ravage has virtually disappeared from regular use. I really only pop it when farming elementals, and on the rare occasions when I'm doing Cat DPS from the get-go on a bleed- or stun-immune raid mob (of which there are plenty, sure; I'm just usually tanking them). I use it occasionally in PvP to pick off a player who's already near death, but even in that case Pounce-Mangle-Shred is about as likely to get the job done. Do you all think Ravage could use a slight buff or is it just a situational ability that's balanced about right?

Pounce for me ticks for ~250 with mangle on, which is 6x250 = 1500 damage. Ravage does about 1400 non-crit on clothies, so it's just no contest unless they're sitting down (although I've started not using pounce on priests - the resist talent is just annoying and doesn't even give the damage).

I'm starting to think I should shift my points from savage fury -> Primal tenacity, as well as moving a point from Reflection over there. The 15% resistance is just so good for pvp especially as fear is such a pain in the arse - I've been killed so many times after jumping a warlock and then getting the deathcoil->fear treatment after getting them down to <50% health just with an energy burst/ooc. The fear doesn't even break, it's just dots + a shadowbolt/shadowburn and they kill me without me getting even the slightest chance.

15% stun/fear resist is the bee's knees in PVE too. Take THAT, Nightbane.

Pounce: when the mob needs to be stunned briefly, i.e. when I'm soloing and following up with a few shreds.

Ravage: when someone else is tanking the mob.

Seems fine to me. And yes, I have Brutal Impact for increased pounce duration. Tanks can find it annoying if you pounce things during the pull, since they won't be able to move those mobs back where they had planned, and they lose the rage from the mob where it was stunned and not hitting them.

I do a lot more tanking than DPS (shocking!), and in an average week I'll have at least 2 apoplectic fits of chewing out a rogue for opening with a stun like that (especially if they do it while the mob is still at range). If I wanted that mob to stay way back there and do nothing for a while, I'd have Cycloned it...

When it comes to Ravage, I guess I'm just disappointed it doesn't hit a touch harder. It's in the same league damage-wise as my Mangle-buffed Shreds, and I don't even have the Everbloom Idol yet. I was expecting a little more out of my "big" opener once moderately geared up at 70; when the vast majority of players are strutting around with 7-8k HP or more, crossing my fingers for a Ravage crit that struggles to approach 3k makes me feel a little gimpy in that specific aspect of DPS.