Druid discussion thread - 3 roles, 5 stages of grief - Page 4

Wickedgirl · 03/03/07, 8:42 PM

Well, to be totally honest and fair we do have some nice abilities, although they are not quite unique (since other classes have them in some form or another)

track humanoids, sea form (faster swimming and underwater breathing), sleep, soothe animal... yes, those are not at all useful for raiding (unless you wanted to swim to Onyxia faster), but they are useful for grinding and just the general feeling you have "other" spells.

Not to mention that whenever i feel the "druid issue" is making me very upset, I remember i got to experience every aspect of the game in just one character - healing, tanking, melee dps, caster dps - and yes, with itemization holes, drastic and unsufficient changes and a lot of other problems, but i still saw instances in different point of view and radically different playstyles.

This made me appreciate other classes and the game more.

Zyla · 03/03/07, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Cord

Zyla is that black spot in your avatar supposed to be a bear or a night elf cat form or what?

I think it got shrank too much. Its a bear

go go quick and dirty MS paint work.

Fixed it to look more like a bear.

Xard · 03/04/07, 1:20 AM

I don't know if outside classes are allowed in this feral fest, but things like innervate, combat res, abolish poison (hello Maexxna) etc. are pretty good. Also as a rogue, getting a mangle on a mob in a raiding environment is a really sweet boost to a finisher, especially when using a druid tank with no armor reduction.

Last I checked, no other class have any other abilities which work like these. Maybe abolish vs poison totem, but there's a reason why you still used it, because it ticks a lot faster than the totem pulses.

• Vykromond · 03/04/07, 3:40 AM

The quote we were responding to was about the "animal forms." Caster form, which has all those abilities you just said, is not an "animal form."

In other words: no outside classes! GRRRR

Dakous · 03/04/07, 5:01 AM

Originally Posted by Xard

I don't know if outside classes are allowed in this feral fest, but things like innervate,

Vampiric Touch, Blessing of Wisdom, Mana Stream/Tide Totem. None of which cause the caster doing what they're specced to do (this is a feral thread, remember) to take +400% damage (bearform while tanking -> caster to innervate = )

combat res,

Soul stone.

getting a mangle

Misery, Shadowweaving, Sunder Armor, Improved Kidney Shot...

Last I checked, no other class have any other abilities which work like these.

I must've missed some massive changes in beta.

Monsanto · 03/04/07, 7:13 AM

Originally Posted by Xard

I don't know if outside classes are allowed in this feral fest, but things like innervate, combat res, abolish poison (hello Maexxna) etc. are pretty good. Also as a rogue, getting a mangle on a mob in a raiding environment is a really sweet boost to a finisher, especially when using a druid tank with no armor reduction.

Last I checked, no other class have any other abilities which work like these. Maybe abolish vs poison totem, but there's a reason why you still used it, because it ticks a lot faster than the totem pulses.

Not to rain on anybody's parade, but this is like getting all excited about sinister strike, garotte and slice and dice.

Athinira · 03/04/07, 8:50 AM

I would ask if people would not get hung by the class descriptions. They are guidelines for beginners and doesn't necessarily accurately reflect the class in what it does or does best. Class descriptions shouldn't be looked at if you consider yourself a pro-wow player.

Zyla · 03/04/07, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Athinira

I would ask if people would not get hung by the class descriptions. They are guidelines for beginners and doesn't necessarily accurately reflect the class in what it does or does best. Class descriptions shouldn't be looked at if you consider yourself a pro-wow player.

Well of course, but with the complete lack of communication from the designers, this is the only message we get as to what they intend for us to be. The fact that it has changed so many times speaks volumes about the lack of coherent and consistant ideas about the role of the class.

Darkmantle · 03/04/07, 9:34 PM

http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=30021

Must give hope to some for decent feral tanking items.

Kelyas · 03/05/07, 1:56 AM

I'd like to note how horrible our healing itemization is as well.

The few decent true "druid" healing items are from heroics/Karazhan. Good luck getting into a heroic group unless you're feral. Healing main in heroics is mostly hell due to non-ooc res, lack of a safety button (divine shield/powerword shield/earthshield), and a completely useless 41pt restoration talent.

Off-healing in a heroic us useless, as you could just be replaced with a shadowpriest who can now damage, heal, restore mana, etc.

Now, as for non-heroic items, I'd like to point out the entire Moonglade set. A hybrid set that's a waste of time. The only healing gear I've seen that's even a decent upgrade over Tier 2 is an occasional piece cloth, and alot of Tier 3 I haven't even seen good replacements for til raiding.

Blizzard really seems to be pushing us towards a "hybrid" roll, yet that also "pushes us out of 5 mans."

But enough of the public discussion-type whining and onto theorycrafting.

Basedon Karazhan raiding and occasionally Gruul's Lair, what sort of build would be better for an ideal druid focusing on hots/regen? Debating on treeform simply due to regrowth spam/swiftmend on (SOME) fights, but I'm not sure if tossing points up into balance for dreamstate or not. Long fights where alot of people take damage (especially 5 mans) have become a huge problem lately as the hots don't seem to do enough and the direct heals OoM me too quick. Suggestions?

Cryect · 03/05/07, 3:01 AM

Originally Posted by Kelyas

Blizzard really seems to be pushing us towards a "hybrid" roll, yet that also "pushes us out of 5 mans."

???

Druids are great if they play as hybrids in 5 mans. In heroics, I'm often off tanking, DPSing, and secondary healing through out an instance. Now unfortunately a resto spec druid wouldn't fill any of those three roles that well though could do off tanking but... why would you have a resto druid as your secondary healer.

CasT · 03/05/07, 4:25 AM

Originally Posted by Cryect

???

Druids are great if they play as hybrids in 5 mans. In heroics, I'm often off tanking, DPSing, and secondary healing through out an instance. Now unfortunately a resto spec druid wouldn't fill any of those three roles that well though could do off tanking but... why would you have a resto druid as your secondary healer.

My main issue with the hybrid roll is that it is based on spells/ abilities and gear rathar than talent.

I cant heal almost as good in a Feral specc and vice versa since I can put on healing/ feral gear pushing me up towards 900 in +healing with feral specc. But to me to really shine in as a hybrid I really need both Feral gear and Resto gear in the same fight. But feral gear often lacks both +healing and/ or Int and due to the cost of shapeshifting and bigger heals mana becomes an issue.

Balance and resto seem to have more in common with the dps/ healing gear have more similarities. But I havent tried tanking in Moonkin ^.^

Tristanian · 03/05/07, 4:39 AM

Originally Posted by Kelyas

Good luck getting into a heroic group unless you're feral. Healing main in heroics is mostly hell due to non-ooc res, lack of a safety button (divine shield/powerword shield/earthshield), and a completely useless 41pt restoration talent.

Off-healing in a heroic us useless, as you could just be replaced with a shadowpriest who can now damage, heal, restore mana, etc.

I highly disagree with the above statement. The only button that can be considered as a "safety" one from the aforementioned is divine shield. The rest just prolong the inevitable death if something goes wrong. ToL is a wasted talent for heroics. If you want to be effective at healing there, use a hybrid resto/balance build. As for shadowpriests, I'm sorry to report if they are being used as an "off-healer" and not a pure dpser, then expect to suffer, especially on end bosses where you need 2 pure healers that can compliment each other and have enough regen to last for as long as its necessary.

Now, as for non-heroic items, I'd like to point out the entire Moonglade set. A hybrid set that's a waste of time. The only healing gear I've seen that's even a decent upgrade over Tier 2 is an occasional piece cloth, and alot of Tier 3 I haven't even seen good replacements for til raiding.

T4 is decent. It's a marginal upgrade, point taken, but its set bonuses along with those of Dreamwalker, are well worth it. Other than that it needs a buff yes (as much as the other T4-T5 sets need). The Moonglade set fails more than Genesis, when it comes to raiding.

Basedon Karazhan raiding and occasionally Gruul's Lair, what sort of build would be better for an ideal druid focusing on hots/regen? Debating on treeform simply due to regrowth spam/swiftmend on (SOME) fights, but I'm not sure if tossing points up into balance for dreamstate or not. Long fights where alot of people take damage (especially 5 mans) have become a huge problem lately as the hots don't seem to do enough and the direct heals OoM me too quick. Suggestions?

If you want to focus on hots, you need at least 36 points in resto for swiftmend and empowered rejuvenation. If you want to focus on direct heals that you can spam then you need at least 33 points in balance and 27 in resto for dreamstate/guidance/moonglow/grace/intensity etc up to empowered touch. You can't be 100% effective at both, I'm sorry. You will have to make a decision sooner or later and I agree with you that hots, save for a few special occasions, can do little in the presence of uncontrolled spikes.

Drauk · 03/05/07, 4:59 AM

I'm curios, what are those stages of grief are ?

Gwyd · 03/05/07, 5:03 AM

Originally Posted by Tristanian

If you want to focus on hots, you need at least 36 points in resto for swiftmend and empowered rejuvenation. If you want to focus on direct heals that you can spam then you need at least 33 points in balance and 27 in resto for dreamstate/guidance/moonglow/grace/intensity etc up to empowered touch. You can't be 100% effective at both, I'm sorry. You will have to make a decision sooner or later and I agree with you that hots, save for a few special occasions, can do little to in the presence of uncontrolled spikes.

I would say this is one of the best descriptions of two main approaches to healing at the moment.

I would add that with a few well placed Restoration and Feral talents you can become an effective hybrid healer with the right itemisation, this comes mainly from the Heroic hybrid items Bark chip boots ect.

Sadly the hybrid healing approach will only work in a small scale environment.