Druid discussion thread - 3 roles, 5 stages of grief - Page 6

Playered · 03/05/07, 11:15 AM

Yeah sadly only the chest has MP5 if im not mistaken, I spose its Blizzards idea to help itemize Tree Druids with plenty of spirit.... because Tree Form has awsome spirit regen from the 2seconds outside of the 5second rule it occasionally gets.

Tristanian · 03/05/07, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Playered

How were the Defender packs? and especially the last one.

While HoTs are nice early on untill agro is established, I've always found myself needing to HT fairly quickly to compensate for the risky burst the tank can get.

Another good question would be how was Quagmiran. I've done pens with a shadowpriest but he was healing on the last boss (we wiped @ 1% when he was in shadowform so might be possible as well but needlessly stressing). Somehow I don't see how hots alone can compensate for spikes, unless the ToL has gear worth of 1400-1500 healing (not very hard but not the easiest to acquire as well) and using regrowths a lot, which at some point will get him oom (ofc there is always the alchemist stone + super mana combo). If you are not sitting in tree form all the time, it's an entirely different matter though.

As for aggro generation, it really doesn't matter a lot, if you pull aggro and the tank doesn't react fast enough/gets taunt resisted/untauntable mob, you will die from a melee mob (especially on more unforgiving melee mobs). Whether you will get 2 or 3 shoted makes little difference but imo there is enough healing leather out there for a decent resto or hybrid kit. I haven't seen a good reason to use cloth yet other than spirit (which doesn't affect me much since I rely on dreamstate for regen within the 5 rule for the most part).

Lord BEEF · 03/05/07, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

How were the Defender packs? and especially the last one.

While HoTs are nice early on untill agro is established, I've always found myself needing to HT fairly quickly to compensate for the risky burst the tank can get.

For defenders we had both the shadow priest and the druid bombing max rank heals on me and that was one of the times when he had to drop tree form. Those packs are an obvious example where throughput is superior to longevity.

I can't remember if he had to drop tree for quagmirran. It wasn't too bad though regardless and the hots were definitely useful.

Cryect · 03/05/07, 12:11 PM

Shrug, done Slave Pens with just a single resto druid spamming her largest healing touch on me. Was lets say a little risky though so for the rest the 2 defender pulls had the DPS kite the second one while I offtanked the first one (was a mage, hunter, and warlock).

Basically there is always a way around things like those mobs that a single healer not even healing spec can heal them.

Quagmirran she did have to drop tree to throw some abolish poisons up but there wasn't any really spike damage on the fight so if it wasn't for abolish poison she could have remained in tree form.

I would say the boss fight she had the biggest issue with would be the second boss where filling up a tanks HP by yourself is extremely hard.

Fellwraith · 03/05/07, 6:31 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

I've actually tanked heroic pens with a tree of life druid healing me, and a shadow priest. With that setup you really have five hots going (rejuvenation, lifebloom, regrowth, vampiric embrace, improved leader of the pack).

With a shadow priest helping out, his longevity was astounding. He only had to leave tree form a couple times during the whole run really.

Our 41 resto druid solo healed me as maintank on the curator for our first 2-3 kills. As long as you can hit a trinket, last stand, or a potion when you take a spike, they can keep you up for a long time. You just need to give them a second to catch up if they fall behind. Very gimmicky in 10 mans, but it may be nice for sustained healing in a 25 man if you have someone to provide spike damage support (paladins would be a good fit).

I'd second the weaknesses of balance. No threat reduction and high crit rates are a very bad combination. We have a healing touch/balance druid who occassionally goes moonkin form in 5 mans. He's probably the one person who can easily pull aggro off me (aside from gimmicky aoe damage encounters like heroic quagmirren with a shadow priest dps'ing).

Gwyd · 03/05/07, 7:25 PM

Solo healing heroics with a Resto spec is not an issue, it's not easy but it's do able with the right gear and a good group. I've even been solo healed through a Slave Pens heroic by Resto Shaman.

The age old art of pre-casting counters most spike damage, as long as you have the dps, cc and tank working together even two off spec healers can heal up to most of the end bosses.

Dpsing on the other hand is less excepted by the masses, to dps in any instance as a druid you usually have to out gear the content to a degree. This isn't due to low dps by any means but to the communities attitude to the class in general.

I’ve proven over the last month to be consistently the second best tank in the guild and the second highest melee dps in the guild, yet I’ve only once been asked to dps in a heroic.

Shiftir · 03/06/07, 8:59 AM

Patch is going live today, guess we'll find out first hand in karazhan tonight if druid tanks still work. I'd imagine it's going to work but be somewhat painful relearning the threat limits, and of course no lacerate.

Apate · 03/06/07, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Gwyd

I’ve only once been asked to dps in a heroic.

I would probably try and get a feral to tank a Heroic; not because I doubt their DPS, but because I think they'd do better than I would.

Dakous · 03/06/07, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Shiftir

Patch is going live today, guess we'll find out first hand in karazhan tonight if druid tanks still work. I'd imagine it's going to work but be somewhat painful relearning the threat limits, and of course no lacerate.

I thought lacerate was changed specifically to still apply threat even if the mob is bleed immune.

Zyla · 03/06/07, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Dakous

I thought lacerate was changed specifically to still apply threat even if the mob is bleed immune.

Nope. Still waiting on potions and procs as well..

you might be thinking of the mangle change to let it go on to bleed immune mobs for shredding

Cluey · 03/06/07, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Dakous

I thought lacerate was changed specifically to still apply threat even if the mob is bleed immune.

I think you are confusing the change they made to the Mangle debuff, they changed it so it would be up on mobs which were immune to bleed so its effect on Shred still worked.
I haven't seen anything about Lacerate still generating threat on mobs immune to bleed effects

Playered · 03/06/07, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Zyla

Nope. Still waiting on potions and procs as well..

you might be thinking of the mangle change to let it go on to bleed immune mobs for shredding

Im sure I read during beta that Lacerate got changed so it would apply the initial threat even though the mob is immune to bleed, mostly I remember because of the "why cant we get a dev like that druids got ffs" whines I saw afterwards

Cluey · 03/06/07, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

Im sure I read during beta that Lacerate got changed so it would apply the initial threat even though the mob is immune to bleed, mostly I remember because of the "why cant we get a dev like that druids got ffs" whines I saw afterwards

I recall the same whines but have them associated with the Mangle debuff change.

Zyla · 03/06/07, 1:07 PM

all the testing finds conclusively that there is no threat if something is immune to bleeds. Go go limited use class unique skill!

Savos · 03/06/07, 1:15 PM

One short comment I'd like to say is that blizzard made the choice to make tanking difficult for Warriors and Druids (seemingly, remains to be seen) with the monster nerf to threat generation of bear form. Still remains to be seen how bad the threat nerf is but there had to be some point where any tank specced druid realized that with no practice they were instantly 5 times better at tanking anything than a vast majority of warriors (and better than day one tank warriors in certain situations flat out).

Just wondering if any of the 70 tank druids ever tried any of the high end 5 man stuff as a warrior and a druid, especially Shadow Labyrinth or Shattered Halls?

Oh well just some thoughts regarding the WvD thread wars, carry on with crying into your beer (thread :P )