Druid discussion thread - 3 roles, 5 stages of grief - Page 9

Olon97 · 03/07/07, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Kink

I would really like to see some tests though.

Is it a fixed amount? If lacerate crits does it double the threat? Does the DoT portion now not generate as much threat to balance this change?

One limited test posted on the blue forums:
https://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/t...81958462&sid=1

The mob used were rock elementals in Nagrand. For this purpose, I ran up to one and lacerated once (an autoattack always slips in). Then, my fiancee (sorry to put you through this babe) tried to pull it off me using a lower rank of moonfire. This was done in melee range so only 110% of threat was required to pull.

Autoattack hit for 269 - 390 threat
Lacerate hit for 24

Moonfire hits for 138
Moonfire ticks for 56x4
Moonfire hits for 138
Moonfire ticks for 56x4
Moonfire hits for 138
Moonfire ticks for 55 - mob aggros

At 841 damage the mob remained on me, at 896 it switched to her. This range is 110% of my threat, which means:

764 < threat by autoattack + lacerate < 814

Subtracting the 390 threat from the autoattack (269*1.45 due to 3/3 feral instinct), this gives us:

Frontloaded lacerate threat is between 374 and 424

Falk · 03/07/07, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Melthar

"High King Maulgar hits you for 8746 crushing".. Certainly feeling the armour changes.

We let our best geared warrior take on Maulgar today. After about 4-5 bad attempts, all of which wasn't the warrior's fault:

1) Lightning spam from Shaman + crushing, druid couldn't get aggro
2) Blastwave from Mage, cuz mage tank couldn't get proper aggro
3) Healer getting tossed by shaman right into Maulgar, healer went splat, tank went splat after that
4) Mighty Blow + Arcing Smash combo, 16.5k spike

I decided to go back to Ironforge, rape the AH for a Titans (thats all there was) grab whatever consumables I had left in my bank, and we proceeded to 1-shot Maulgar with me tanking.

Granted, warrior probably would have worked if the above mishaps hadn't happened, but it was pretty funny in hindsight after all the doom and gloom about the bear nerfs. But yes, it hurted much more.

Overall, I guess I'm pretty glad that we're getting a proper (yes, I'm counting them chickens... oo look, what a shiny egg) line of gear progression to look forward to, rather than being automatically able to outtank warriors in full lv115 blues/Karazhan epics with my lovely quest greens.

Zyla · 03/07/07, 1:39 PM

Yay. Blizzard loves me again!

I wonder what they mean by tanking sets...revamp of t4 or additional set of t4?

Shiftir · 03/07/07, 1:50 PM

Originally Posted by Zyla

Yay. Blizzard loves me again!

I wonder what they mean by tanking sets...revamp of t4 or additional set of t4?

The peices of tier 4 I already have better get changed into something useful. Either tank or dps if they're going to add another set, or tanking if they're not.

Zyla · 03/07/07, 2:02 PM

well im just curious whether or not to splurge on my current t4, whether im going to have to beg and plead with GMs to switch it over.

Falk · 03/07/07, 4:12 PM

I'd actually like to see if changes are planned to the Heavy Clefthoof set... although getting bear-level armor would probably be crazy imbalanced with the amounts of stamina those things have.

Melthar · 03/07/07, 4:15 PM

Originally Posted by falkon2

We let our best geared warrior take on Maulgar today. After about 4-5 bad attempts, all of which wasn't the warrior's fault:

1) Lightning spam from Shaman + crushing, druid couldn't get aggro
2) Blastwave from Mage, cuz mage tank couldn't get proper aggro
3) Healer getting tossed by shaman right into Maulgar, healer went splat, tank went splat after that
4) Mighty Blow + Arcing Smash combo, 16.5k spike

I decided to go back to Ironforge, rape the AH for a Titans (thats all there was) grab whatever consumables I had left in my bank, and we proceeded to 1-shot Maulgar with me tanking.

Granted, warrior probably would have worked if the above mishaps hadn't happened, but it was pretty funny in hindsight after all the doom and gloom about the bear nerfs. But yes, it hurted much more.

Overall, I guess I'm pretty glad that we're getting a proper (yes, I'm counting them chickens... oo look, what a shiny egg) line of gear progression to look forward to, rather than being automatically able to outtank warriors in full lv115 blues/Karazhan epics with my lovely quest greens.

The huge spike was the same sort of issue I was having on Maulgar. Due to positioning requirements I was unable to have either an imp or commanding shout until at least the first few adds were down, this left me on about ~17k HP. Getting a quick mighty-crushing (up to about 8.8k max)-arcing combo would leave me eating dirt and all of us running back.

In the end, an extra warlock logging online and letting me get the imp (and shadow embrace) made the difference.

alamo · 03/07/07, 6:01 PM

Blizzard has done an awesome job with making Shadow Priests a powerful, useful hybrid that performs a specific and unique function while retaining core elements. I don't know that it is possible for druids to ever be in the same position because of our flexibility, but ILotP has mitigated our pigeonhole somewhat.

With the changes to bear tanking, it looks like feral is really being moved to a viable DPS/ off-tank hybrid raid role, with the added perks of innervate and battle rez.

Druids have proved that they can do excellent DPS in a competitive raiding environment, judging by screenshots of cat DPS in the top 5. I would like to see some good discussion on the viability of cat DPS, specifically:

1) Is cat DPS preferable to fury warrior DPS as of now?

2) Will cat DPS scale at the same rate as fury warrior DPS?

I would really like, in 2.0, to be able to prioritze my set gathering for two roles, rather than try and gear up the 4 we have access to (healing, moonkin, bear, and cat).

Call me pessimistic and fully immersed in the 5th stage of grief, but I dont want to gear up for cat only to find out in 2-3 months that cat really isnt worth bringing for a DPS role.

Cryect · 03/07/07, 6:46 PM

Originally Posted by alamo

Druids have proved that they can do excellent DPS in a competitive raiding environment, judging by screenshots of cat DPS in the top 5.

Most those screenshots show lackluster performance as well from other classes either due to not good synergy in groups or just lack of effort in the forms of elixirs/flasks while the druid is going all out.

Originally Posted by alamo

1) Is cat DPS preferable to fury warrior DPS as of now?

IMO, a druid's DPS should be slightly behind Fury warriors while benefiting more from their other abiltiies they bring while all a Fury warrior brings is DPS & melee interupter.

Originally Posted by alamo

2) Will cat DPS scale at the same rate as fury warrior DPS?

Easy enough for someone to figure out with the existing spreadsheets both for Feral DPS & warrior spreadsheets. Not sure though.

Cluey · 03/07/07, 7:11 PM

Originally Posted by Cryect

Most those screenshots show lackluster performance as well from other classes either due to not good synergy in groups or just lack of effort in the forms of elixirs/flasks while the druid is going all out.

IMO, a druid's DPS should be slightly behind Fury warriors while benefiting more from their other abiltiies they bring while all a Fury warrior brings is DPS & melee interupter.

I expect you are right on the first point, druids in a DPS role always feel like they are justifying themselves so try really hard.

As for fury warrior DPS comparisons, at what point do you compare the damage done?
How much each does individually?
How much each does combined with the additional damage their group buffs do for others?

I have been happy enough with what I have put out in the past although I get the feeling the majority of the competition was lackluster.

Exewut · 03/07/07, 7:18 PM

It depends, if you are in a group with an enhancement shaman your damage will be very good, and continue to scale very well (given itemisation). If you are in a normal group killing adds on curator on the other hand your damage will be horrible.
If the conditions are there (behind the mob, an enhancement shaman (agility/strenght/unleashed rage), not bleed immune, time enough to build up 5 cp chains) then I doubt you'll be out of the top 3.
Everbloom idol helps a lot as well.

[e]Or perhaps I just try that much harder...

Zyla · 03/07/07, 11:59 PM

everbloom is so gonna get nerfed. just look at its cousins.

Boevis · 03/08/07, 1:54 AM

Anyone noticing bugs with Lifebloom final heal? Lifebloom target: 881, Lifebloom self: 969. Is this because the target doesn't have Gift of Nature, yet I do?

Gwyd · 03/08/07, 2:16 AM

Originally Posted by Zyla

everbloom is so gonna get nerfed. just look at its cousins.

I’m not so sure, at the moment the vast majority of the wow player base is in complete blissful ignorance of just how much damage we can put out in cat.

I’ve seen a number of fury Warrior pve vids touting so called “leet” Warrior dps, I can’t help but smile that the low damage out put compared to when I slip into my dps gear.

At the moment when I’m not tanking (Aran, Illhoof, The Curator, Prince) I try my best to match our rogues dps, we add a little banter to make it fun, I can match them and if the encounter is based around a bleed able mob I can pass them.

Over all it’s good for the raid, I get my epeen fix and our dps goes that extra mile to out dps that “damn druid”.

Will it last…No.

At some point I’ll stop scaling and the others will pass by, after all it’s the nature of the class but it’ll be fun while it lasts.

Exewut · 03/08/07, 2:23 AM

Originally Posted by Zyla

everbloom is so gonna get nerfed. just look at its cousins.

Wouldn't surprise me, on a crit it adds
83*1.10*2.20*1.30 (naturalist, predatory instincts and mangle debuff) = 261 damage, which is around 10% of your shred damage.