LF Post about Windfury vs. GoA - Page 2

Dazwin · 03/08/07, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by stinkfot

To my knowledge the "better" specc for rogues when it comes to raids has always been swordspecc and thus no poisons now i have seen some mace speccs aswell lately due to haste and so that should put wf on top most of the time, although with a druid in the group i'd probably go for agility if only one warrior is in the group aswell.

Spec has pretty much nothing to do with whether or not a rogue is using poisons. Poisons are free dps. Well...kind of free...

Fellwraith · 03/08/07, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by diospadre

My rule of thumb is that if the number of warriors is equal to or greater than the number of people who get no benefit from WF combined, go with WF.

If the rogues are combat sword/fist/mace or hemo, they also should want windfury (if not now, soon).

~2% crit + AP + poisons on their MH =< 20% chance for another attack

The only math you need to do for a rogue is determining whether or not the statement above is true. Mutilate doesn't matter, there's multiple ways to make sure your opponent is poisoned (offhand shiv being the primary one).

When you've got big weapons, high AP, and frequent instant attacks, WF is king. Poisons won't scale very much, another attack will as you get better gear and buffs. Warriors should always want WF, regardless of spec.

Athinira · 03/08/07, 12:36 PM

Replace a rogue with a feral druid, poison problem solved, 5% more crit = 5% more flurry as well as selfheals for the entire group.

This is if your raid setup allows this of course. Druids do respectable DPS lately.

• Maestroquark · 03/08/07, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dazwin

Spec has pretty much nothing to do with whether or not a rogue is using poisons. Poisons are free dps. Well...kind of free...

Spec does affect the difference between GoA and WF, though. Having Improved and/or Vile makes a big difference in poison dps.

Coriolis · 03/08/07, 1:13 PM

Originally Posted by Maestroquark

Spec does affect the difference between GoA and WF, though. Having Improved and/or Vile makes a big difference in poison dps.

Yeah when I said mutilate spec I really meant spec which includes the poison talents which mutilate usually does. Keeping your target poisoned with your OH is easy regardless of what you do with your MH

Hamilburg · 03/08/07, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Oggie

For warriors, it's honestly nicknamed Totem of Endless Rage. Its' so powerful that people exploit the hell out if it by spamming HAMSTRING to get WF procs with a 2hander, which is (if you want to go look at the DPS thread in the other forum) really, really powerful. It more or less guarentees that there will never be a dps warrior short on rage for thier abilities, enabling them to guarentee shouts, pummels, and respectable dps. To be perfectly frank, with the gross dps increases many classes have seen, the only reason DPS warriors are functional at this gear point is because they -have- windfury.

I would have sworn up down and center that, as yellow attacks, WF procs did not generate rage now (and that this was a change from early WoW). Was I misinformed?

• Fogbug · 03/08/07, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by Hamilburg

I would have sworn up down and center that, as yellow attacks, WF procs did not generate rage now (and that this was a change from early WoW). Was I misinformed?

they changed it to make it white hits again before release, presumably because they didn't want to damage warrior DPS further than they intended with the other changes (windfury/rage generation values are a bit trickier to quantify, I imagine it was something blizzard felt it would be best to leave alone rather than try to work out)

edit: come to think of it this is wrong, see below v v v

Nite_Moogle · 03/08/07, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by Hamilburg

I would have sworn up down and center that, as yellow attacks, WF procs did not generate rage now (and that this was a change from early WoW). Was I misinformed?

Windfury weapon procs are yellow, I believe (don't quote me, it's been a while) that windfury totem procs are white.

• Fogbug · 03/08/07, 1:47 PM

Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle

Windfury weapon procs are yellow, I believe (don't quote me, it's been a while) that windfury totem procs are white.

actually yeah, I remembered this and came back to post it. windfury totems were never yellow at all

Skiace · 03/08/07, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by Hamilburg

I would have sworn up down and center that, as yellow attacks, WF procs did not generate rage now (and that this was a change from early WoW). Was I misinformed?

to further clarify, there was a time when they were going to make this the case, but then the decision was reversed. that was some time around last spring/summer, i.e. before the horde paladin/alliance shaman anouncement, so people made a lot of noise when it was proposed.

• Relwin · 03/08/07, 2:28 PM

If there is a warrior, you will want windfury. Combat swords/mace rogues are few and far enough between that if you have a you can safely say that if you don't have a warrior you drop GoA. (as envenom will be a solid finisher(especially when they steal my stormstrike charges(fuck you dagger rogues)))

crimsonsentinel · 03/08/07, 3:18 PM

How would the extra dodge from GoA factor into a tank group? Or is it so minimal that windfury for rage is unequivocally better?

Lumi · 03/08/07, 3:32 PM

Originally Posted by crimsonsentinel

How would the extra dodge from GoA factor into a tank group? Or is it so minimal that windfury for rage is unequivocally better?

I believe windfury was patched to generate no rage.

• Maestroquark · 03/08/07, 3:38 PM

Originally Posted by Lumi

I believe windfury was patched to generate no rage.

Please, read before posting. Every time Windfury is brought up, there's confusion on white damage / yellow damage, and it's only exacerbated because people don't read before they post.

• Fogbug · 03/08/07, 3:40 PM

Originally Posted by Skiace

to further clarify, there was a time when they were going to make this the case, but then the decision was reversed. that was some time around last spring/summer, i.e. before the horde paladin/alliance shaman anouncement, so people made a lot of noise when it was proposed.

that was something a little different - under that proposal, instant attacks (i.e MS and hamstring) wouldn't proc WF procs. actually, there was a period of testing where no instant attacks procced any procs and Blizzard was staying mum on the subject before the change was reversed, so who knows what evil they were planning :I