Smoker

Firstly Hi to all, have read stuff on this forum for a long time and have finally decided to registrate and try to contribute some.

Now on to my question:

Fel Reaver's Piston, http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30619#z0z

Anyone know if it can procc on a every jump chainheal does? (so maximum 3 HoT's on 1 chainheal)


EDIT: Ah can't belive I missed that, but yeah then I suppose I've got a greater combo at the moment.

 

CasT

Just by reading the comments on your link i find the following:

Do not matter how much you play, you will never get the carrot.

 

Glasswizard

Care to share your math?

 

Oren

I noted for priests just because of our ability to get out of fsr while still casting, as well as the obvious tremendous spirit->regen gains outside. I mention it, because to really get full effect of the earring its really best to be out of fsr, and the assumption I think is that at least at some point we will be able to. Bearing that in mind, perhaps I should rescind my previous statement to some extent, in that if you were never able to get out, I would probably value an owl over one of trinkets depending on fight length and base spirit. So having said that, at 30% regen while casting(mind you most of us if not all are probably at 35% with bangle proc up) activating both trinkets is worth what works out to around 10 mp5, which is fairly respectable and puts it over rejuvenating gem -if only used while in fsr-. Now having said that, lets assume that in a boss fight, you at a minimum are able to get out of fsr for only *one* cooldown of the trinkets(they're on a 2min), that would be worth the equivalent of 45ish mp5 for the trinkets alone during that 2 minute cycle, not counting your own spirit(so about double that in overall gain), which is well over 2 shards(what I believe to be the current maximum mp5 at 32?). Now, obviously it takes a bit of work, luck, and precise timing to really utilize the trinkets to their maximum(getting out of fsr on most cooldowns), but we also have to consider that the bangle proc itself adds a good bit of regen I didn't count.

I make particular note of using them together because they are both able to feed off each other in multiple situations; If you can't get out of fsr, you can bite the bullet for that cooldown and pop the trinkets while the med proc is active. If you can get out, you can activate both spirit procs and send your regen through the roof. That synergy, in conjunction with the extremely reasonable cooldowns on the activates, is what in my mind makes it the strongest combination for us.

Hmm....just rechecked formulas and theres actually something wrong. Getting higher numbers in game than I'm getting from what I calculated, but I guess that isn't a bad thing. Regardless, its in the ballpark. I'm not really math guy, so I'm just rolling off the blizzard provided formulas to the best of my ability. Even if the math is off a little bit, the long and short of it is: Worst case scenario your trinket slots amount to rejuv gem+bangle proc, normally above double shards(plus some healing), and optimally a shit ton of mana.

 

SindirHH

I still find it hard to take clicky trinkets over rejuv gem. Also the blue dragon deck has been great for me lately.

 

• constantius

I can see a serious attempt at using two regeneration trinkets once we're in full T5. Until then, not too many of us can afford the hit to our +heal in order to allow such a thing to happen.

Right now, I have Rejuv Gem + Shard of the Scale. I have a LCPB in the bank, and almost enough badges for the oh-so-crappy Martyr. I have a Pendant of the Violet Eye somewhere in my bank, and am still holding on to my Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon.

Realistically, I've never had 3 minutes go by without a Darkmoon Card proc. Often it can be less than that, and last time I checked, it was old-school-no-hidden-cooldown. For sake of argument, assume a proc every 3 minutes, and an 8 minute fight (so 3 procs). Obviously the numbers will change based on varying lengths and "luck" of the proc. Also, these numbers only really apply to priest/druid.

Darkmoon Regen over 8 minutes, assuming 3 procs:
300 spirit: 1980 mana
350 spirit: 2261 mana
400 spirit: 2542 mana
450 spirit: 2824 mana
500 spirit: 3105 mana
550 spirit: 3386 mana
600 spirit: 3668 mana

(assuming raid-buffed spirit, no trinkets for +spirit used, but with flexibility to switch in an enchanted Everliving for +75 spirit, which, for me, would put me at 500, even in Mp5 gear)

Shard of the Scale over 8 minutes:
1536 mana

As you can see, over 8 minutes, there is no way, shape, or form that Darkmoon can be beaten by Shard of the Scale (or Fel Reaver's Piston). Using the math I did way above for the Pendant, as a priest, they come out to be similar, since Pendant sucks for people who don't spam little fast heals.

If you drop Darkmoon down to a proc every 4 minutes, give or take a bit, then so long as you can ensure you have 400 spirit during each PROC of Darkmoon, it's still better than Shard of the Scale.

Which makes me rethink my current position on having it equipped, actually. O.o

I would love to play with a Bangle, but I'm exalted Sha'tar, and the only time I've seen it drop was when I came on another character. My wife, however, has one for each of her 70 priests ... :-(

 

Nomad_Wanderer

This is what concerns me. My Blue dragon is powerful @ 70. That combined with my talasite owl is a great combination (helps me compete with other guildies primal mooncloth set bonuses, as I'm not a tailor )

So far I've not heard of them 'allowing' level 60 things to be more valuable then the level 70 things.. So as others have already suggested, this item is probably coing to be changed in some way.

I just wish they wouldn't do any invisible/behind the back changes like hidden cooldowns etc.

 

Merple

At the moment, my +healing is a bit low with only a little over 1200, so I tend to use the LCPB and the Scarab to keep that number high. When my healing gets a little higher, I'll probably switch out the LCPB for my Blue Dragon on boss fights.

I'll never walk through the door of SSC, but the earring certainly would be a lovely thing to have.
I'm working on getting the Bangle, but Botanica seems to be totally abandoned on my server.

My work-around for on-click +heal is just to macro it to renew. I use it enough that it spends very little time off the cooldown and bigger renew ticks work for me.

 

Oren

I'm not getting the same numbers as you posted. With mp5 being static, it needs to be factored out of the equation when trying to figure out how much mana the proc would yield. Basically the trinket puts you out of fsr(though i'm not sure if it literally does so), so just from your character sheet you would subtract your static mp5(while casting) from your mp5 out of fsr, and multiply that by 3(15 second proc) to see how much mana the proc yields in and of itself.

Just going off my gear(which for the record is totally mp5 based) with no buffs but spirit, that puts a proc at about 600 mana(very low end). Now, I tested the rate a little bit, and after 4 cycles of 100 casts, I got 1 proc every 50 casts, every time. Now, if we used flash heal, that would make it a pretty amazing trinket - but we're not paladins, and flash heal is bad. So for the sake of optimal conditions lets assume chaining gheal(I dunno, mt healing tidewalker or something), at 2.5s per cast it would take a little over 4 minutes to cast 100 spells, which would in turn yield 2 procs, totaling 1200 mana which equates to about 25 mp5(its a little less, but I just used 4 minutes instead of the real number which is a little more). So under the best conditions thats really quite strong, but clearly those conditions aren't really constant so in all likelihood the yield is going to be a bit less, though still at the very least around where a shard would be I would think.

I dunno, maybe I'll wear it tonight and check out wws for procrates in real situations and see how it stacks up.

 

Nitz

What is the hidden cooldown of Fel Reaver's Piston ? I think it's definitely one of the best trinket out for a chain healing shaman if it can procs off all the CH bounces.

 

• constantius

That's what I did. :p

Assume a proc gives you 15 seconds of 100% regen. Assume 400 spirit. Your regen is the usual
which works out to 283Mp5. Now, you get 3 full 5 second periods, so it is a regeneration of 848 mana per proc @ 400 spirit.

Now, assume 3 procs in 8 minutes (which was my stated assumption). That gives 2543 mana regenerated.

Your 600 mana in a given proc would be 268 spirit, which even for a Mp5 set is pitifully low. I did assume raid buffs -- I'm almost 420 spirit raid-buffed, and I'm running 218 Mp5 II5SR.

 

Boevis

You need to take into account that you normally have 15% mana regen, so a Proc only gives you 85% mana regen effectively. And that's assuming you stay in the FSR the entire time.

 

• mutagen

My issues with the Blue Dragon trinket was the number of casts I was cancelling. Sure, back in the Heal 2 spam days it was better but when I started canceling larger heals it just wasn't proccing enough, my combat logs put it equal to Mindtap the way I was healing back then. Now, however, with stacking Renews, Priests might be able to get procs more often. Of course I was bright enough to shard my Blue Dragon ... LFG UBRS???

 

Oren

Thats actually an important point.

I ran the card tonight on mag and void. My buddy hasn't updated our wws yet for me to give any specifics, but my initial impression was....."blah".

 

Oren

As a general rule I don't shard anything percentage based. Theres just too much potential for the "some day with better itemization" factor.

 

Myul

Assuming:
700 spirit
8 minutes fight
25 casts/minute
100% inside of the five second rule

-> 4 proccs

5640 mana regen from trinket.

BUT with every cast less and every second outside of the five second rule, it becomes less worthy. And 700 is a very high amount of spirit, just a little exaggeration to show, how good it can be in an allmost perfect world. Compared to other "good" regen trinkets like Talasite owl ( http://www.thottbot.com/i24127 ), with 2 usages in 8 minutes you can regenerate 3144 mana without looking for as much cast as you can spam or a little bit of proccluck.

Just think about it, while not casting with 700 spirit you receive 470 mana/5s as a priest. So, with only 75% of your time in the five second you will regenerate more mana in this fictive combat. (~8930!).
The idea behind blue dragon and bangle are nice, but the proccrate - especially the one of the darkmoon card - is to low to allow you to spam at any cost and not watching for you five second rule.

Some non juweleer examples:
Warmth of Forgiveness = 2460 mana
Shard of the Scale = 1536 mana

 

SindirHH

As much as I love it when my blue dragon deck procs more than expected there are always those fights where I just cringe because it did not proc once, wasting an item slot.

When it boils down to it, I personally think that there just are levels of trinkets and that once you hit a raiding plateau you should definatly seek certain trinkets more than the others. Even though I enjoy using my blue dragon deck for HKM and Gruul, it still cannot compete with other possible trinkets that I have (Rejuv/Alchem/Shard).

As for anyone who raids I cannot see using any trinkets other than Alchem Stone, Shard, Rejuv, Warp Brooch, Jewelcrafting Owl, Warmth.

As for myself (not having the brooch/warmth/owl), I always have rejuv and alchem if the extra mana will be required and shard if it won't. Also have some trinkets just to play around with (eye of gruul/blue dragon/scarab), but when its time to actually raid I have my set picked.

Lastly, they seriously need to make some new trinket shine because if I could have any combo I would definatly use warmth/rejuv (never killed 4H? or Sapph I forget which :P).

 

thorin5

I heard something regarding the Fathom Brooch working for heals in 2.1. I figure this is a good place to ask someone to confirm or deny that rumor since I don't have one and am quite curious whether it will or not.

 

Myul

It works for healing on ptr, but has an internal ~45s cooldown. With a procchance of only 15% you will have around 1 procc per minute -> ~ 28 mp5.

Calculating with 1 proc every 45s it's ~ 37 mp5.

As an elemental shaman i would prefer trinkets with critrating for direct dps and manaregen from elemental focus, as a resto shaman i do prefer essence of martyr + ribbon of sacrifice (post patch), plenty of +heal and useful on use's.

It's a sidegrade to Talasite owl or a not job dependently alternative, but only if you are willing to cast a lot.

 

• constantius

4H.

And I cry myself to sleep that we never got to 4H, thus making me miss out on that trinket. I can't justify losing my recipes in Enchanting or Tailoring to leveling JCing up high enough to get Talasite Owl. :-(

 

Lightshadow

If you're willing to work at it, you can get a ton more out of the blue dragon card than I think some of the above posts might suggest. Do you have a Spirit Staff (70-75 spirit) and a wand (17-18 spirit) to swap in when it procs? Are you wearing a bangle (130 spirit) or an earring (300 spirit)? Do you use inner focus to keep yourself out of the 5sr for a couple more ticks after the proc wears off?

If I had an earring, I'd have this as my second trinket. With say 500 spirit raid buffed (kinda low for someone that has an earring, honestly) and the ability to swap gear/trinket for another (75 + 17 + 300) * 1.1 = 430 spirit, I think there's no contest. As a bonus, this procs just a little less often than the trinket comes back up (on average). Even with just a bangle, you can snag another 250 spirit or so with a single macro =)

 

Handled

So after looking at all the 2.1 item changes.

Ribbon of Sacrifice
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
Requires Level 70
Use: For the next 20 sec, your direct heals grant Fecundity to your target, increasing the healing received by the target by up to 30. Fecundity lasts 10 sec and stacks up to 5 times.
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 73.

vs old

Ribbon of Sacrifice
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
Requires Level 70
Use: For the next 20 sec, your direct heals grant Fecundity to your target, increasing the healing received by the target by up to 20. Fecundity lasts 10 sec and stacks up to 5 times.


So they improved the stacking and they gave it a passive 73 healing, The stacking would still only be truely effective if you had a group that were all cycling the trinket to make sure it was always up or if it can be stacked on the tank from multiple people at one time. Does anyone consider this to still be somewhat of a questionable trinket? The 73 healing barely puts it above the Scarab and Prayer book and the use IMO is still questionable at best unless multiple people are using it and it's a hard encounter where spike damage is dangerous and honestly there aren't a large amount of those that I have been part of since Gruul.

 

Oren

Still useless garbage. They were better off when they had 11 mp5 on it.

 

Handled

I agree completely need more passive mp5 trinkets to make up for upcoming change.

 

Blottica

I recently got an earing to play with and as far as I can tell on live currently ive been have a great time useing it paired with the bangle, they proc if not at the same exact time or damn near close to it. But I was wondering if anyone has tested on PTR in a real raid setting in BT or Hyjal or anything for that matter if this was still a good combo with the earing being switched to a on use. becuase I was thinking of just switching to a talasite owl and the earing by itself to get a kind of middle ground on straight mp5 and a nice on use. Any help?